Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Group of First timers rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Caerid is just some guy
United States
Cannon Falls
MN
flag msg tools
Can't I even get privacy in the bathroom?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A couple of us have been obsessing over this game for quite some time, but have yet to play. We have the base game and both expansions. Our whole group will be playing for the very first time. We plan on having 8 players. So the questions are: Distant Suns? Leaders? Flagships? Any other optional rules? What would be the "best" combination of rules for a starting group to keep those that are less obsessed with the game interested throughout? Also - Races? Are there really OP races that beginners could take advantage of that should be avoided? Or Races that struggle mightily that should also be avoided?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For your first game, especially if it's EVERYONE'S first game, I'd focus primarily on getting the mechanics and rules down. I'd recommend leaving out anything "extra", although I do think they add to the game - just go with the basic stuff, learn the mechanics. You might even consider only playing 3 or 4 rounds just to get a feel for it, then you can be ready for the next game where you can just jump right in.

For a first game, I wouldn't bother worrying about the relative race powers, although you may want to avoid the Xxcha and Sardakk N'orr just because they have a little bit slower "startup" compared to other races.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Brettell
Australia
South Turramurra
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd go with the Shattered Empire's Strategy Cards. I think its a fairly widely-held view that they are what the original cards should have been like.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brettellmd wrote:
I'd go with the Shattered Empire's Strategy Cards. I think its a fairly widely-held view that they are what the original cards should have been like.

It is a widely held view, but I hold that I would recommend the original cards for a first play, if nothing else so you have something to compare to.

I like the Shattered Empire ones because I think they give more options, but I wouldn't turn down a game using the original ones; they work just fine for what they do.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Bush
United States
West Decatur
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
At all cost
badge
"Some fights will just get you bloody"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We played with just about everything but distant suns garbage the first game and a person getting a point for chairing the council (whatever that's called). Go all in man.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DanielFirestorm wrote:
We played with just about everything but distant suns garbage the first game and a person getting a point for chairing the council (whatever that's called). Go all in man.

Just out of curiosity, of all the optional rules to omit, why did you take out Voice of the Council? (I know some people don't like it, but I'm just curious)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Reisinger
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
colmmccarthy wrote:
DanielFirestorm wrote:
We played with just about everything but distant suns garbage the first game and a person getting a point for chairing the council (whatever that's called). Go all in man.


Despite the admirable gung-ho spirit of the above, I would agree with Scott and just play the base game as-is.

It's just a board game. Don't overanalyze it. Have fun.


Dont play with 8, play 6
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Robb
United States
Calais
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb

There must be a hundred or so posts on BGG about playing TI3 the first time.

You owe it to yourself and your gaming friends to research those "old" posts and see what other players have said over the past few years - especially for a FIRST game - first games have been discussed so many times I cannot imagine there is anything new now.

Research the rules questions on these forums to see how others have handled difficult situation and game events. Your first game will be much smoother and more fun IF you know the rules and seen how others have already handled them.

why re-invent the wheel?


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Conroy
United States
Winchester
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
For your first game, especially if it's EVERYONE'S first game, I'd focus primarily on getting the mechanics and rules down. I'd recommend leaving out anything "extra", although I do think they add to the game - just go with the basic stuff, learn the mechanics. You might even consider only playing 3 or 4 rounds just to get a feel for it, then you can be ready for the next game where you can just jump right in.

For a first game, I wouldn't bother worrying about the relative race powers, although you may want to avoid the Xxcha and Sardakk N'orr just because they have a little bit slower "startup" compared to other races.


Agreed, a big game like this you want to get the gameplay right before adding all the extra bells and whistles. My first couple of games of Europe Engulfed jused only the basic rules, then we branched out to the neat optional rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Bush
United States
West Decatur
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
At all cost
badge
"Some fights will just get you bloody"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
DanielFirestorm wrote:
We played with just about everything but distant suns garbage the first game and a person getting a point for chairing the council (whatever that's called). Go all in man.

Just out of curiosity, of all the optional rules to omit, why did you take out Voice of the Council? (I know some people don't like it, but I'm just curious)


It was seen as a lame catch up mechanism. But I saw the true down side, "I'm tired of this game and can't win, so lets team up and let the guy in first win." Lame.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DanielFirestorm wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
DanielFirestorm wrote:
We played with just about everything but distant suns garbage the first game and a person getting a point for chairing the council (whatever that's called). Go all in man.

Just out of curiosity, of all the optional rules to omit, why did you take out Voice of the Council? (I know some people don't like it, but I'm just curious)


It was seen as a lame catch up mechanism. But I saw the true down side, "I'm tired of this game and can't win, so lets team up and let the guy in first win." Lame.

Fair enough, though I'm not sure how good a catch-up mechanism it can be, since it's only one point, and only as long as you have the card If someone else gets the card, you lose your point and they get it instead.

Although the "let the guy in first win" bit could happen, depending on the group; although if the group is feeling that way, I suspect they are probably burnt out on the game and some introspection could be done to help prevent that kind of burn-out in future plays
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Randolph
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
brettellmd wrote:
I'd go with the Shattered Empire's Strategy Cards. I think its a fairly widely-held view that they are what the original cards should have been like.

It is a widely held view, but I hold that I would recommend the original cards for a first play, if nothing else so you have something to compare to.

I like the Shattered Empire ones because I think they give more options, but I wouldn't turn down a game using the original ones; they work just fine for what they do.


Even though we have played for a long time (16 games, 52 games total) with a very well-developed set of custom rules, I must concur with Sigma (Sigma, mark your calendar, we agree on something, lol).

I recommend that you play the base game, with base game strategy cards (some are actually better IMHO, SC#2 "Diplomacy" {base} and SC#6 "Warfare" {base} are excellent, and possibly underappreciated, strategy cards); and no "extras." Play to 10, or even fewer, VP's and leave out all optional rules.

That's my "2 cents" anyway.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brettellmd wrote:
I'd go with the Shattered Empire's Strategy Cards. I think its a fairly widely-held view that they are what the original cards should have been like.


We greatly dislike them, barring Tech 2, and use the originals and some Shards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Lucas
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools
It's a perfect day for some mayhem!
badge
It's a perfect day for some mayhem!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Keep it simple, man. You'll be pretty busy arguing over rules regarding the transfer action and a host of other things to try and figure out the other bells and whistles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Madsen
United States
Kearns
Utah
flag msg tools
Trains!
badge
Houseplant?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No optional rules for a first game where everyone is new. It helps with rule lookups and such.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff S
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Download the PDFs for the rulebooks and FAQ to a tablet for easy reference.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
sigmazero13 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, of all the optional rules to omit, why did you take out Voice of the Council? (I know some people don't like it, but I'm just curious)


I can tell you why I do. It does very little besides waste time, because it's quite hard to arrange to both have it and win with it, given that every player wants to give it to themselves but failing that to the player with the lowest perceived VP.

Hence, unless you dominate the political process or pull off some really spectacular bubble victory from the rear, you won't in practice be Voice of the Council when you win the game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Horne
United States
Whitehall
Michigan
flag msg tools
Mr. Axle can do all for you.
badge
Apologize again!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damerell wrote:
I can tell you why I do. It does very little besides waste time, because it's quite hard to arrange to both have it and win with it, given that every player wants to give it to themselves but failing that to the player with the lowest perceived VP.

Hence, unless you dominate the political process or pull off some really spectacular bubble victory from the rear, you won't in practice be Voice of the Council when you win the game.

Voice of the Council can become critical if the holder (who probably got it in the early game) is a contender in the late game. I've seen people win with it by taking Assembly themselves to protect it. I've also seen other players cowboy up by taking Assembly and popping it right away to get it away from someone, when they could have been doing something to further their own game instead. Forcing your opponents to be inefficient in the late game is not to be dismissed. Furthermore, if your group is like mine where everyone is of a similar skill level, you run into the problem where stripping one player of VotC means you are giving it to someone else. If everyone is close in score, it can be a real dilemma.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
AxleKerrigan wrote:
Voice of the Council can become critical if the holder (who probably got it in the early game) is a contender in the late game.


You say that, but one has to ask why anyone called a vote for it in the early game unless they had a tight enough grip on the votes to give it to themselves. Of course, it could be a quid pro quo to an ally...

... but I'm not saying it's never relevant; I'm saying I don't think it's relevant often enough to make it worth the effort.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Pratt
United States
Snohomish
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damerell wrote:
AxleKerrigan wrote:
Voice of the Council can become critical if the holder (who probably got it in the early game) is a contender in the late game.


You say that, but one has to ask why anyone called a vote for it in the early game unless they had a tight enough grip on the votes to give it to themselves. Of course, it could be a quid pro quo to an ally...

... but I'm not saying it's never relevant; I'm saying I don't think it's relevant often enough to make it worth the effort.


Another reason to call for an early vote is to give it to another player whom you consider a long-term threat. Quite often, I've seen players snipe at the points leader simply because they are in the lead. VOTC is not horribly hard to take away later, and it can be used to make another player look like they are further ahead than they really are, giving them some undo negative attention from the other players. (Doing this is doubly satisfying if you can get some sort of a favor from this player if you support him/her during the initial VOTC vote.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Horne
United States
Whitehall
Michigan
flag msg tools
Mr. Axle can do all for you.
badge
Apologize again!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damerell wrote:
You say that, but one has to ask why anyone called a vote for it in the early game unless they had a tight enough grip on the votes to give it to themselves. Of course, it could be a quid pro quo to an ally...

Trade Goods and/or territorial concessions, usually.

damerell wrote:
... but I'm not saying it's never relevant; I'm saying I don't think it's relevant often enough to make it worth the effort.

Fair enough. The effort is pretty minimal, but it's certainly not a game-changer every session.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AxleKerrigan wrote:

damerell wrote:
... but I'm not saying it's never relevant; I'm saying I don't think it's relevant often enough to make it worth the effort.

Fair enough. The effort is pretty minimal, but it's certainly not a game-changer every session.


I think the effort is quite large - we banned it after the voting and politicking every round.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Shunta
United States
Norton Shores
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think VotC is great for the game.

Having more things that people care about that are worth trading is a net good for the game. And, because it can be somewhat fleeting people are more willing to make trades for it or trade away their votes for it.

Trading away the information about the top of the deck from Bureaucracy, or trading away knowledge of action cards, or trading away timing for strategy card popping are all items that can be traded for votes in the voice of the council in the early game. I think trading those types of things makes the game way more interesting than only trading trade goods. And, the nice part is that most of those things are not long term trades, but rather real trades that can essentially happen immediately.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.