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Fury of Dracula (Third/Fourth Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Should the game be played with rumor tokens? rss

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Mike Romeo
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I mean, is dracula really supposed to get 7 points after 7 turns? Drawing a vampire happened every game thus far (out of 3)... Maybe it's luck but still I believe there is a good probability that this happens so I supposed they have taken it into account when balancing the game.

From then on its either one more vampire matured with a token, two more vampires without token or 2 weeks and its game over.


Have hunters been able to win in this situation? Agaisnt Good Dracula players I mean, not counting games when Dracula did mistakes?


Just wondering because it's rare that I get to play a game 3 times and I want to play it more, but I don't have time to play 20 games to see if its balanced...


Thank you.

PS: What should hunter do? How often do you supply at day? Especially when you are not on dracula's trail, and need to find it?
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Joel Stair
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I have played 4 time as a 2player game my wife playing the hunters and me dracula and once with her as Dracula.

Dracula in every game won in the 3rd week
Dracula had 3 life left in 1 game and 1/2 in another.

I would say in my next game I will only play Rumor tokens in the 2ed week and i would have 2 rumor tokens to play.

I think that will balance the game a bit.
Also will let you bluff a bit more with 2 rumor tokens

Also see
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1469280/rumor-tokens
 
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Pavel Kourganov
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Didn't play yet as I'm still waiting for my box. But don't plan to use rumour tokens in at lease my several first games. Have it making +3 score looks like an overkill.
 
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Mark Turner
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Dertarr wrote:
Didn't play yet as I'm still waiting for my box. But don't plan to use rumour tokens in at lease my several first games. Have it making +3 score looks like an overkill.
Seems to me that rumour tokens are a potentially useful game balancing tool.

I would assume that well played hunters can easily cope with them. But if the hunters are struggling, they could be removed to even things up.
 
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Joel Stair
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MrMT wrote:
Dertarr wrote:
Didn't play yet as I'm still waiting for my box. But don't plan to use rumour tokens in at lease my several first games. Have it making +3 score looks like an overkill.
Seems to me that rumour tokens are a potentially useful game balancing tool.

I would assume that well played hunters can easily cope with them. But if the hunters are struggling, they could be removed to even things up.
Mark is correct there.
 
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Ryan Keizer

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The way I see it, the Rumor tokens are an optional rule that can be used to re-balance the game in Dracula's favor if you're playing with skilled, experienced Hunters. While I don't see the rumor tokens ever being the distraction tool that they're meant to be, they do put a lot of pressure on the Hunters to find and kill Dracula that much faster since he can essentially win the game by maturing two vampires.
 
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David Williams
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Quote:
While I don't see the rumor tokens ever being the distraction tool that they're meant to be, they do put a lot of pressure on the Hunters to find and kill Dracula that much faster since he can essentially win the game by maturing two vampires.
This comment seems to suggest the hunters generally don't have any meaningful opportunity to prioritise searching the locations with rumours on them. Is that the case?

I ask because if hunters just ignore them, then Dracula will always put them on Vampires and they will function exactly as you say and never be a distraction. But if hunters make a point of always pursuing and searching rumoured locations at every opportunity, even if it means Dracula might get further away from them, or at the very least sending 1 hunter to backtrack and hunt down the rumour, then all Dracula is doing is telling them where his vampires are, which in turn will slow his influence progress, affording the hunters more time to catch him.

That's my understanding of how they should work. But if they can be matured before the hunters even have a meaningful choice on whether to pursue them or not I can see why the mechanism would fall flat.
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David Williams
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Just to clarify, this post seems to me to explain the potential for imaginative rumour use quite nicely, and very much how I understood they were intended to work:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20768515#20768515

DaveD wrote:
You're right that the token doesn't give info about where it is, but the location will not always be unknown. Say a hunter moves to a location and it is in the trail. The location card is revealed at that point, but not any encounters (unless Dracula chooses to Ambush). For their next action the hunter needs to decide whether to spend an action to search or to do something else. The presence of a rumour token is going to encourage the hunter towards searching.

In the ideal world hunters would always look to find out what all the encounters are but in practice actions are limited and if you search, you might find something you'd rather you hadn't. Again things are somewhat different to previous editions where you if you moved into a location on the trail everything was automatically revealed and encounters resolved.

All of this is of course me rambling on the basis of very limited experience (reading the rules and 1 play), but the game does seemed to have been rebalanced compared to the second edition which was hunter biased.
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Ryan Keizer

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Orion3T wrote:
Quote:
While I don't see the rumor tokens ever being the distraction tool that they're meant to be, they do put a lot of pressure on the Hunters to find and kill Dracula that much faster since he can essentially win the game by maturing two vampires.
This comment seems to suggest the hunters generally don't have any meaningful opportunity to prioritise searching the locations with rumours on them. Is that the case?
I wouldn't say that. There is the opportunity, certainly. The problem, from the Hunters' perspective, is that if Dracula is going to actually take advantage of the bonus that the rumor token gives him, he's not going to want the Hunters to be able to find that location before he can mature it. You can absolutely go attempt to find the locations, but in my opinion you'd be better off going directly after the beast, because if you don't find the location in time, you're going to give him a significant lead.

Of course, you can always split up and have someone going after Dracula and others going after the locations. If everything works perfectly for Dracula, though, he can theoretically mature a second vampire with a rumor token on it before week 2 ends. Even if he only manages to get one vampire with a rumor token, that's still about half of the influence he needs to win. If I were playing as a hunter, I'd be far more interested in finding and killing Dracula quickly, and ganging up on him is the easiest way to accomplish that.

The rumor tokens can absolutely work in the way that you're suggesting. In my opinion though, the greatest advantage they give Dracula is not distraction, but taking time away from the Hunters.

I think if the rumors were only worth 1, or maybe 2 influence, they would work better as a distraction tool for Dracula because then, at least for me if I were playing a Hunter, it would feel less like I had to put my foot on the gas.

Give them a try, for sure. See if they work for you. I gave them a go as Dracula and I didn't really like them. I might go back to them once my group and I are more experienced, though. The best part of all of this is that they're optional. The game is a lot of fun with or without them.
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David Williams
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Quote:
You can absolutely go attempt to find the locations, but in my opinion you'd be better off going directly after the beast, because if you don't find the location in time, you're going to give him a significant lead.
I see - interesting. If I understand correctly you seem to be saying that the fact they are worth a lot of points means you are actually more inclined to ignore them and go for Dracula. If they were worth less, then you might be more tempted to try and stop them. I'm not sure I understand your logic - surely the more points they are worth, the more effort the hunters should put into investigating them? If they granted an instant win, would you still feel the same?

But let's say the hunters are following Dracula hot on his trail. There is a hunter on the 3rd space. Dracula places a rumour token on the 3rd space.

The hunter now has a decision whether to move during the day trying to catch up with Dracula, or to waste their daytime action searching the city they are in in order to make sure the rumour is not a vampire. It seems to me they should absolutely search that location (assuming no other hunter is likely to pass through it in time to stop it maturing) as once they move on they have essentially gifted Dracula half of the points he needs. From their perspective it may seem an obvious bluff but with 7 points on the line is it worth the risk?

Effectively in this situation Dracula can use the token, with the most likely outcome being the hunter wastes a turn searching. If it's not a vampire he might just get them to not only waste a daytime action but actually damage them with whatever nasty effect the card has.

In this situation if it really were a vampire, I might actually be less inclined to put the rumour on it as Dracula so I don't draw attention to my semi-mature vampire. But you must decide then or it will no longer be one of the first 3 locations.
 
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David Williams
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Thanks for the comments and advice btw, I'm not meaning to argue just explore the possibilities. I haven't played the game yet so am working somewhat in the abstract.

At the moment I am thinking the first time we play will likely have me as Dracula with the basic rules only. If my son or daughter take Dracula's role I'd suggest they use his extra powers and rumour tokens to make it easier for them.
 
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Mark Turner
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Orion3T wrote:

But let's say the hunters are following Dracula hot on his trail. There is a hunter on the 3rd space. Dracula places a rumour token on the 3rd space.
This seems to me the most interesting use of a rumour token.

Dracula and Hunter fight. They both end up where they are. Dracula flees a spot but leaves a rumour token. Hunter decides whether to kill the rumour or chase Dracula.

Of course, in that case, there will be time (in theory) to double back to the rumour location and get it later...
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Mike Romeo
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Yes the problem is I believe it can be really hard for the hunters to find draculas trail before a vampire matures (if dracula gets a vampire in his starting hand, which happened in all our games and has a lot of chances of happening). 7 turns to FIND the trail and then find and get to the location that has the vampire on it is really really hard. And you probably need a weapon or two (or stake) if you want to kill the vampire before he escapes from battle... And to find them you need to go in big cities, and supply.

So if Dracula gets a vampire in is starting hands, does he really have better options or alternative then always starting with a vampire and a rumor token (on the third turn)? Almost a garanteed 7 points...


Also I thought they were part of the Advanced game with Power cards? Is it really mentionned that they are optional? For me when I see advanced and basic game I actually read Real game and shorter easy game with less meat that is not the real game but for a first play (its almost always the case with other games). I'm not really interested in those, so I thought the power cards AND rumor token needed to be added since they are the Advanced game and thought they were both required for a finely balanced advanced game...

Edit: Oh and lair as well for advanced game.
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David Williams
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MrMT wrote:
Orion3T wrote:

But let's say the hunters are following Dracula hot on his trail. There is a hunter on the 3rd space. Dracula places a rumour token on the 3rd space.
This seems to me the most interesting use of a rumour token.

Dracula and Hunter fight. They both end up where they are. Dracula flees a spot but leaves a rumour token. Hunter decides whether to kill the rumour or chase Dracula.

Of course, in that case, there will be time (in theory) to double back to the rumour location and get it later...
Yeah I was thinking of that as well, to have the player on spae 2 and you can choose location 2 or 3 depending how much risk to take (assuming it's a bluff).

But I haven't played yet, so wasn't 100% sure how things resolve after the hunters encounter Dracula, so I went with the simpler situation which I knew could occur.
 
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David Williams
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KingAnus3 wrote:
Yes the problem is I believe it can be really hard for the hunters to find draculas trail before a vampire matures (if dracula gets a vampire in his starting hand, which happened in all our games and has a lot of chances of happening). 7 turns to FIND the trail and then find and get to the location that has the vampire on it is really really hard. And you probably need a weapon or two (or stake) if you want to kill the vampire before he escapes from battle... And to find them you need to go in big cities, and supply.

So if Dracula gets a vampire in is starting hands, does he really have better options or alternative then always starting with a vampire and a rumor token (on the third turn)? Almost a garanteed 7 points...
Right that makes sense. If that's the case then using the romour token is not such a meaningful choice at all and I can see why many people are unsure about it.

Quote:
Also I thought they were part of the Advanced game with Power cards? Is it really mentionned that they are optional?
All of the advanced rules seem entirely beneficial to Dracula only. So one possible interpretation is that these are rules for Advanced Hunter play.

It's almost as if the designers view the game as a co-op except one player gets to play as the antagonist. In that sense it seems 'advanced' could really be meaning 'more challenging for the hunters'. So playing with all the advanced rules offers the greatest challenge for the players. Perhaps it's supposed to be rare that the hunters win? I don't know, just guessing really.

You're right as far as I can tell - the rules don't ever say they are optional. But clearly players can do as they wish, whether that's leaving out the tokens or making them worth less points.
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Jeffrey Speer
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Yes.
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Could you houserule, "Add vampires to the deck after X days" or "Redraw starting hand if it contains vampires"
 
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