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Wilderness Empires» Forums » General

Subject: A re-tread of Struggle for New France? rss

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Bob Barnetson
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So I dropped in on my buddy last night. We'd played Wilderness Empires two weeks go. He had also picked up a new FIW game a few weeks back (Struggle for New France https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/137708/struggle-new-...) and we decided to give it a try.

About 5 minutes into the rules explanation and I'm seeing very similar mechanics and the map looks about the same. Fair enough, I think, same war, same level of abstraction--you're gonna see similar things.

Then we start playing and except for the combat mechanic and how you track troop strength, it is the same game (for less than half the cost). We speculate a bit about perhaps a design duo break up leading to competing products. These things happen.

I get home and check and it is the same designer flogging essentially the same game (with better production values in Wilderness Empires). I suppose this is a case of buyer beware. But I can't help feeling a bit POed that I just dropped $65USD plus shipping on a game I could have had for $30.

I don't recall the kickstarter explaining the retread nature of the game and this is also not set out on Worthington's website. I'm very disappointed by this business practice and I won't be buying any more Worthington Games.
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Steve Duke
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Wow, a damning accusation.

Can you comment about the designer's comments highlighting the differences in the games and that in fact, this is not a retread?

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1264332/wilderness-empire-s...


 
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Bob Barnetson
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Sure (comments from other thread have a > in front).

>The wilderness empires has different units more cards a much larger map different combat system.

The WE map is physically larger and looks prettier, but that is not a meaningful difference.

There are more cards in WE and there is a tiny difference in when you play them, but the cards are basically the same (bring on reinforcements, blockade, Indians on warpath, siege guns)

The combat system is different (which I acknowledged) but that is a pretty small thing (the original combat system is actually better). And WE has militia (a very small difference) .

>Think of it as struggle for New France totally revamped with many game ideas from a game they were working on and parts of SFNF also in place.

Totally revamped? Gimme a break. Here are some similarities in the mechanics:

Four seasons in a turn, same number of years, same mechanic to determine when the game starts.

Same number of cards in a hard.

Same card replenishment system.

Many cards identical in effect (adjusted for different unit strength system), although the (not great) three-player option in WE is new.

Same actions in a turn (reinforce, move, combat).

Same basic map (although WE has two adjustments I noted, one on each flank)

Very similar terrain effects

Indian villages are burned when occupied.

Indians fall back to villages after battle

Generals give a combat advantage and affect movement

You can play cards to affect combat (as well as for other purposes)

You track victory on point tracker.

>Hard map board etc..

The production values of WE are higher (hard map board, blocks instead of counter) but for twice the price you’d expect that.

Better quality components is not really a “difference” in terms of the game mechanics. Oddly WE exacerbates the over crowding of the map in the middle because it uses huge blocks.

This is, at best, a second version of Struggle for New France. And that should have been made apparent on the KS and on the Worthington website.

I get buyer beware. Yet, even if I had recognized the similarities, the SFNF thread contains denials of that from both the designer and Worthington while the KS was running.

This is a very poor way to do business.
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grant wylie
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Bob,
WE is based on SFNF that was combined with a FIW design Grant and I had created. We believe there are many differences between WE and SFNF but agree there are also many similarities because Bill's SFNF formed the basis of the WE design. Sorry you do not feel there is enough differences in the game systems but that was not the purpose of WE. In fact just the opposite. We wanted to take all the great features of SFNF and combine that with the our design to produce a high quality French and Indian War game with a great game system and provide first class game components with period and historical art.

Mike
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bill molyneaux
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Sir,

I am sorry you are so unhappy with WE. I have had many positive reviews. Also it is sold at military sites like Fort Ligonier and Fort Ticonderoga while no other French and Indian war games have cleared their venting process oh except SFNF.

I had posted multiple times that this was a combined effort between Mike, Grant and myself to produce WE with combined ideas from SFNF and their input also.

Thank you
Bill Molyneaux
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Bob James
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YOU ARE WRONG, I have both bought them while in Gettysburg.
two trs ago and newer this year.
some similar, but the new wilderness empires is great with the fow blocks
recommend to all...get it.

 
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Bob James
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Re: A re-tread of Struggle for New France? NO
FURTHER BOB, THE EARLIER GAME DID NOT GET OUT TO MANY PEOPLE.
THIS NEWER ONE WILL.

I HAVE SHOWN IT AND PLAYED WITH TWO NEW WAR GAMERS, THEY LOVED UT AND ONE PLAYED THE OTHER EARLIER SIMILIAR, HE LIKES THIS NEW ONE A BUNCH.
 
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Steve Duke
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How did you handle the 12+ blocks in one location while you are playing?

My brother and I gave this a go and there were a couple locations that it was just heaps of blocks.

It almost begs for a leader display card where you keep the leader on the map and move his units off map on a display.

I thought the game had a fun aspect to it.
 
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Paul D
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OP is quite clearly making a mountain out of a molehill here.


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Steve Duke
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How so?
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