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Subject: Joe's Crab Shack trying no-tipping model rss

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Junior McSpiffy
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LightRider wrote:
I'm not that crazy about crabs, to be honest.
Why do you hate resources?
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The idea that tipping improves service is unfounded, since it happens AFTER the person has done the job.

I'd like to see it gone completely.
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wifwendell wrote:
The idea that tipping improves service is unfounded, since it happens AFTER the person has done the job.
The idea that tipping a wage improves service worker performance is unfounded, since it happens AFTER the person has done the job.

How about that? A reverse post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (after this, therefore because of this): before this, therefore can't influence it.

Probably one of the reasons I have good experiences is that I tip well, so I'm remembered. But only to a limited extent. One of the cultural variables is, do you treat the waiter like he's just an automaton or do you interact with him as a person? Since I'll interact with any but the grumpiest waiter, that probably gets me better service. (And now some will probably complain that they shouldn't have to treat a waiter as a human because they're paying for the service, which I feel is very wrong.)
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AndroVox wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
While unsurprisingly larger breasts lead to larger tips from men, interestingly the increase from women is even larger. At least under the rigorous testing methods of Mytbusters.
It is truly pathetic how depraved women will get in order to wring money out of hardworking men. Although it's really unsurprising that other women ENCOURAGE this practice by tipping extra.
I never thought of it like that. I've always thought of it from the point of view as the men encouraging women to debase themselves, never of the fact that women are the aggressors in this. I'll have to revisit my views on this. Thank you for giving me cause to examine my prejudices.
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galad2003 wrote:
Any country that I went to in Europe that didn't have tipping had shit service.
what happened
 
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galad2003 wrote:
single sentences wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Any country that I went to in Europe that didn't have tipping had shit service.
what happened
I got shit service. The waiter seats you takes your order eventually and you never see him or her again. Usually they are hanging out by the bar watching football. If you want a refill on your drink you can try to flag the waiter down who usually ignores you so you have to walk to the bar to get it then the bar tender generally acts pissed off you asked him for something.

I saw this in Germany and Netherlands. The UK was fine for on service but I only had time to eat at the airport.
you mustve been to shitty restaurants - when i traveled there the service was decent (england + low countries + germany) or friendly (italy + greece) but i usually followed recommendations from locals
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I found English service pretty so-so, but it may be a cultural thing. I've heard complaints from English that US waiters are too attentive. Basically, "Go away until I `park' my silverware" (lay the knife and fork together, pointing to the center of the plate, indicating one is finished).
Some also complain US waiters are too cheerful.
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galad2003 wrote:
Any country that I went to in Europe that didn't have tipping had shit service.

I suspect those of you against tipping are cheapskates.
Perhaps I'm a cheapskate? I generally tip 15%, 20% if service was good. I've never stiffed someone on a tip.

I don't know that your perception is anywhere in tune with reality, but I'm not sure.

Do you find it irrelevant that tipping results in racially disparate wages?
 
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qzhdad wrote:
XanderF wrote:


qzhdad wrote:
(Unless, of course, you can somehow instill pride in a job well done. Japanese restaurants often have great service.)
I think customers would just need to work to be somewhat less passive-aggressive (which tipping allows for). If you are getting great service, let management know and they can adjust for that in the regular worker pay. If you get awful service, ALSO let the management know and they can deal with that, too.
Do you (or anyone you know) give feedback to management regularly in retail stores (that don't have tips) now?

It seems like a huge stretch to expect customers to quickly adapt to giving feedback verbally or even with surveys. (Although, maybe I am wrong on surveys, because a lot of businesses seem to think this is worthwhile.) And, honestly, I really dislike the 'checkmark' visits from the managers at restaurants asking if everything is ok.

I write hand written notes on the back of the receipt with the server's name and a note on how great the service was and if the food was well prepared by the kitchen staff with smiley faces .

However, I think the survey's increasingly matter more and the frontline managers have less control. However- the staff turns over so fast, it probably doesn't matter anyway. Even going twice a month, in the last decade, I have probably seen the same waitstaff only a few times. Plus, the ones who were awesome and I saw a few times would suddenly disappear and when I'd ask what happened, they had melted down. I think they took great pride in their work and then finally one day realized the company didn't give a crap about that and/or they thought they were more valuable than management thought they were.
 
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Tall_Walt wrote:
I found English service pretty so-so, but it may be a cultural thing. I've heard complaints from English that US waiters are too attentive. Basically, "Go away until I `park' my silverware" (lay the knife and fork together, pointing to the center of the plate, indicating one is finished).
Some also complain US waiters are too cheerful.
Yep, that is my attitude. Don't like chatty waitstaff at all, or those who keep coming up whilst I am eating and talking to my friends.
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Some also complain US waiters are too cheerful.
The difference between being friendly and being rude through over-friendliness is, perhaps unsurprisingly, culturally relative.
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Some also complain US waiters are too cheerful.
The difference between being friendly and being rude through over-friendliness is, perhaps unsurprisingly, culturally relative.
I find artificial friendliness puts me off. Behavior that might be fine on a subsequent visit puts me off on the first visit because it makes me feel alienated due to my sense I'm dealing with a mask/act.

And then there is the young lady who sat down with us at our table one time to take our order all smiles and acting like we were her best friends. Wth?
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Tall_Walt wrote:
I've been to countries where tipping is not part of the culture. Even in Japan, where service and professionalism are part of the culture, service was generally poor.
I've been to lots of countries where tipping wasn't part of the culture either and the service varied from "average" to "excellent." Germany was the best by far, but France was surprisingly excellent as well. I find most European servers take the attitude that once you've sat down and ordered your food, if you want anything you'll ask, and otherwise their job is to bring the food and otherwise leave you the hell alone for as long as you want, and I can appreciate that.
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LightRider wrote:
I'm not that crazy about crabs, to be honest.
I think you can either get an RX shampoo or shave off all your pubes
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TheChin! wrote:
LightRider wrote:
I'm not that crazy about crabs, to be honest.
I think you can either get an RX shampoo or shave off all your pubes
Okay, now I can desubscribe from this thread. I've been waiting on the edge of my chair for hours now for someone to take the low-lying fruit.
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Deleted112516 wrote:
Okay, now I can desubscribe from this thread. I've been waiting on the edge of my chair for hours now for someone to take the low-lying fruit.
...or at least take a razor to the low-hanging fruit.
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mightygodking wrote:
I've been to lots of countries where tipping wasn't part of the culture either and the service varied from "average" to "excellent." Germany was the best by far, but France was surprisingly excellent as well. I find most European servers take the attitude that once you've sat down and ordered your food, if you want anything you'll ask, and otherwise their job is to bring the food and otherwise leave you the hell alone for as long as you want, and I can appreciate that.
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough. There's little more frustrating than being in a (supposedly) good restaurant and needing but not finding a waiter or anyone. I've rarely had the experience of a waiter plopping down a similar but wrong dish and disappearing, or needing to leave but no one around to ask for the bill. I'll take the extra checks by the waiter with gratitude.

Of course, the restaurant design contributes. In a single room bistro style restaurant, you can always signal some staff member. But in a multi-room restaurant with privacy partitions between the booths, a waiter really has to check each table; if he just cruises by, you might not be able to react fast enough to catch him.

It seems like the anti-tippers want less service. Would they really like the result? Suppose a waiter checks on you every ten minutes; then the average wait from needing him will be only five minutes. But if he checked only every half hour, the average wait would be 15 minutes, quite a long time when you need to leave or need something to continue your meal--plenty of time for food to get cold. I wonder if the anti-tippers would really like the result of the waiter checking on them less frequently. Or, do they just tend to complain, and they'd complain about too much service or bad service in either scenario?
 
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Tall_Walt wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
I've been to lots of countries where tipping wasn't part of the culture either and the service varied from "average" to "excellent." Germany was the best by far, but France was surprisingly excellent as well. I find most European servers take the attitude that once you've sat down and ordered your food, if you want anything you'll ask, and otherwise their job is to bring the food and otherwise leave you the hell alone for as long as you want, and I can appreciate that.
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough. There's little more frustrating than being in a (supposedly) good restaurant and needing but not finding a waiter or anyone. I've rarely had the experience of a waiter plopping down a similar but wrong dish and disappearing, or needing to leave but no one around to ask for the bill. I'll take the extra checks by the waiter with gratitude.

Of course, the restaurant design contributes. In a single room bistro style restaurant, you can always signal some staff member. But in a multi-room restaurant with privacy partitions between the booths, a waiter really has to check each table; if he just cruises by, you might not be able to react fast enough to catch him.

It seems like the anti-tippers want less service. Would they really like the result? Suppose a waiter checks on you every ten minutes; then the average wait from needing him will be only five minutes. But if he checked only every half hour, the average wait would be 15 minutes, quite a long time when you need to leave or need something to continue your meal--plenty of time for food to get cold. I wonder if the anti-tippers would really like the result of the waiter checking on them less frequently. Or, do they just tend to complain, and they'd complain about too much service or bad service in either scenario?
Huh? I don't see how tipping or anti-tipping corresponds to complaining. You don't need tips to have good service.
 
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Tall_Walt wrote:
It seems like the anti-tippers want less service.
That's really not the case - although I can see why you may come to that conclusion, given the lack of 'tipping culture' in the EU and their strange preference to less service, but... man, those guys are weird, sometimes.

Of course...I suppose as a counterpoint...when I'm eating on my own on a business trip or something, I do tend to just sit at the bar - where the service is effectively "constant". And a bartender that is chatty is fine with me.
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough.
Can you explain the drink refill thing a bit more? In a restaurant I'll typically get a bottle of wine and a bottle of mineral water on my table, and if the staff want to refill me that's nice, but I'm happy to pour it myself. Do they hold your wine bottle hostage in the US?
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Deleted112516 wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
LightRider wrote:
I'm not that crazy about crabs, to be honest.
I think you can either get an RX shampoo or shave off all your pubes
Okay, now I can desubscribe from this thread. I've been waiting on the edge of my chair for hours now for someone to take the low-lying fruit.
wow youve waited almost 2 days
 
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sbszine wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough.
Can you explain the drink refill thing a bit more? In a restaurant I'll typically get a bottle of wine and a bottle of mineral water on my table, and if the staff want to refill me that's nice, but I'm happy to pour it myself. Do they hold your wine bottle hostage in the US?
In the US many things are ordered by the glass, and especially soft drinks.
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sbszine wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough.
Can you explain the drink refill thing a bit more? In a restaurant I'll typically get a bottle of wine and a bottle of mineral water on my table, and if the staff want to refill me that's nice, but I'm happy to pour it myself. Do they hold your wine bottle hostage in the US?
i think hes talking about free/unlimited refills
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lfisher wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough.
Can you explain the drink refill thing a bit more? In a restaurant I'll typically get a bottle of wine and a bottle of mineral water on my table, and if the staff want to refill me that's nice, but I'm happy to pour it myself. Do they hold your wine bottle hostage in the US?
In the US many things are ordered by the glass, and especially soft drinks.
People go to restaurants and order soft drinks?

IN gods' names, WHY???

Mind = blown
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sbszine wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Maybe because I usually want frequent drink refills, that's not really a priority for me. I'd much rather have a waiter who checks too often than not often enough.
Can you explain the drink refill thing a bit more? In a restaurant I'll typically get a bottle of wine and a bottle of mineral water on my table, and if the staff want to refill me that's nice, but I'm happy to pour it myself. Do they hold your wine bottle hostage in the US?
I don't have a ton of experience w/ wine, but in mine, if you order a bottle of wine, they'll pour the first cups, and leave the bottle for the table. I don't like mineral water so I don't know, but if you order water, they bring you a cup of water, if you run out, they grab it and go refill it. I prefer having a pitcher (I drink a lot of water,) but it's not the custom.

You can, of course, order glasses of wine as well.
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