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Subject: Looking for a game that's like a heavier Waterdep rss

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Some Guy
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Waterdeep has quickly become a favorite in my gaming group. But we are looking to start branching away from the lighter, intro games we have been playing, like Ticket to Ride and Carcassonne, and get into some heavier worker placement type games.

I have looked around, and it seems like almost all the games people recommend have some gimmick (for want of a better word) that turns me off. I bought Castles of Burgundy on a whim after reading many good things and i HATE the dice aspect. I looked at some videos of Le Havre and was into it until I saw the leap-frog mechanic that makes Tokaido my most hated game ever. Stone Age also has dice.

Are there any heavier euros that play like Waterdeep, in regards to the freedom of movement, placement and all that. Like in Stone age you place workers, then take X dice, then do some math and maybe, if you're lucky, you get what you want. One of the things we love most about Waterdeep is that if you want 2 orange cubes, you place a guy, and get two orange cubes. I understand that the straightforwardness of Waterdeep is probably what makes it lighter, and the dice, math and all that of Stone Age could add complexity, It's just a complexity that feels less strategic because the dice add a random element that I hate.

Are there any other games like that, or am I going to be stuck rolling dice or dredging through some stupid gimmick?
 
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Andy Burgess
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If it's worker-place,net that you're into, have you looked at Agricola/Caverna, etc? No dice there.

Or Trickerion, which should be available soon - there are dice, but not in a way that you'd dislike, probably...
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Greg
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I wouldn't call the 'leap frog' aspect of Tokaido a gimmick but that's a debate for another time.

If you like the worker placement aspect of Lords then why not check out the mother of all worker placement games - Caylus?

Caylus has no dice and pretty much no randomness. Make no mistake though, Caylus is not lightweight, it can be very cutthroat.

Another rec. would be Agricola, however, some find the theme, farming, boring as hell.

Check them out and see if they are what you are looking for.

Cheers,

thiazyl
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Some Guy
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thiazyl wrote:
I wouldn't call the 'leap frog' aspect of Tokaido a gimmick but that's a debate for another time.

If you like the worker placement aspect of Lords then why not check out the mother of all worker placement games - Caylus?

Caylus has no dice and pretty much no randomness. Make no mistake though, Caylus is not lightweight, it can be very cutthroat.

Another rec. would be Agricola, however, some find the theme, farming, boring as hell.

Check them out and see if they are what you are looking for.

Cheers,

thiazyl


I'm in the Tokaido is Auto-Play camp myself, but yes, that is a topic for another time. Everyone except me seems to LOVE Tokaido.

I was thinking Agricola, but a lot of people were saying that felt tied down by a lack of freedom with what you can do, since you lose points for not building a little of everything. I dunno if a super cutthroat game would be the best. We tend to play pretty peacefully, which I think is what makes Ticket to Ride so popular in the group. We play it more as a build yourself up game and not so much a try to tear someone else down game. We usually only end up blocking each other by accident.
 
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Damian White
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Check out Egizia.

I'm a fan of Stone Age myself - I think it represents the lighter end of the worker placement very well, and perfectly balances a little resource management atop that - but I hear what you're saying about the dice rolling. Sure, in-game mechanisms mitigate that to some degree, but still ... nothing kills a game like rolling 6 1's when an average roll would have done the job. I mean, what are the chances?

But when I think of a step up from Stone Age, I think of the wholly under-rated Egizia. It's a heavier worker placement game that's full of tough decisions.

You have to place each successive worker downstream every turn, which can tactically limit your choices. You need to beef up your workers so they can builder bigger (read: give you more points), but then they need more to feed. And the more you focus on beefing your workers, and building with them, the less you're thinking about securing enough food to feed them. Or getting enough stone for them to build with. Needing to balance all these with beating your opponents to the best spots can really lead to some tense play.

It's on the drier end of the Euro spectrum, so it would help if you dig the Egyptian theme. But there are no dice, and all information except for each player's bonus scoring conditions are open.

What's more, you can give it a go online for free at yucata.de.

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Plei Forejoy
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Tahsin Shamma
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Yedo is exactly what you're looking for.
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Randy Espinoza
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I'm assuming you have the expansion to LoW, if not get it.

If you want another worker placement game without having to roll dice (I agree with you about Stone Age) perhaps look into Viticulture, if possible adding Tuscany.

Also, to diversify, look into games with different mechanics. For the level you mention I would recommend Mission: Red Planet, Small World, Splendor, 7 Wonders.

 
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Emils E
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Agricola/Caverna is good option.
You should also look into Viticulture Essential Edition which should be in stores by Christmas
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Randy Espinoza
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Jebbie wrote:
He says he doesn't like the dice rolling, which is the "gimmick" of CoM.
 
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Some Guy
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Espinoza wrote:
I'm assuming you have the expansion to LoW, if not get it.

If you want another worker placement game without having to roll dice (I agree with you about Stone Age) perhaps look into Viticulture, if possible adding Tuscany.

Also, to diversify, look into games with different mechanics. For the level you mention I would recommend Mission: Red Planet, Small World, Splendor, 7 Wonders.



No, I don't have Skullport yet. But it is on the very top of my Buy List.
 
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Ted Flaherty
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For getting into heavier worker placement without dice, agree you can't go wrong with Agricola, but the one I recommend most highly is Tzolkin.

The advancing gear mechanic is very cool--not at all random, though you need to calculate whether opponents will take the cogs before you, fight for first placement and gauge their place/pull cycle, etc.--definitely our group's favorite advanced worker placement game.

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Some Guy
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veector wrote:
Yedo is exactly what you're looking for.

I think you might be right! It seems pretty cool so far from what I'm seeing. Seems a bit lengthy, though.
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Bjørnar Løseth
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Shuko wrote:
I looked at some videos of Le Havre and was into it until I saw the leap-frog mechanic that makes Tokaido my most hated game ever.


No. No. No. The mechanism in Le Havre is _NOTHING_ like Tokaido. In Le Havre it is nothing more than a timer. In Tokaido you have a choice where to put your meeple ahead of the pack, but in Le Havre your ship just lands on the next free spot.
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Trevor Taylor
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The Manhattan Project is a good next step. It even has something similar to the buildings in LoW. The main difference is it adds more common 'different' workers (LoW has a couple, but they're unique).
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Jeff Pearce
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Viticulture
Tzolkin
The King's Abbey
Caverna



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Andy Holt
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You might consider
Russian Railroads or
The Voyages of Marco Polo
Hansa Teutonica looks "dry" but actually is worth more than a look
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Jesper Jørgensen
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veector wrote:
Yedo is exactly what you're looking for.


+1

Regarding length, there is a variant that reduce the number of rounds to 8 (from normal 11).
 
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Alain Baum
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bloseth wrote:
Shuko wrote:
I looked at some videos of Le Havre and was into it until I saw the leap-frog mechanic that makes Tokaido my most hated game ever.


No. No. No. The mechanism in Le Havre is _NOTHING_ like Tokaido. In Le Havre it is nothing more than a timer. In Tokaido you have a choice where to put your meeple ahead of the pack, but in Le Havre your ship just lands on the next free spot.


Indeed, Le Havre and Tokaido are very very different.

Le Havre can be distilled to the following characteristics (or "gimmicks", if you wish):

- You have several different goods that each have an upgraded version.
- Some of these goods are used to construct buildings, which give you points.
- You can place your worker in other players' buildings.
- You have to feed your people regularly.

ETA: I love Le Havre and was very much bored by Tokaido; if I want leapfrogging, I go with Glen More.
 
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Todd Carter
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I've only played it once so far, but I think Argent: the Consortium may be a Waterdeep killer for me. It involved not only worker placement, but variable boards, treasure, spells, followers and variable hidden goals. Also the theme is really appealing to me: you're wizards competing to become the next headmaster of a wizard's school. It's worth checking out!
 
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Fern Bymob
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- Euphoria (who has dice but since they are your worker at the same time, I wouldn't consider it a problem like in Stone Age)
- Belfort (I think that's exactly what you're looking for...)

Also, Keyflower, I haven't played it myself, but I've heard a lot of good thing about it!
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Mike Taylor
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thiazyl wrote:
If you like the worker placement aspect of Lords then why not check out the mother of all worker placement games - Caylus?

Caylus has no dice and pretty much no randomness. Make no mistake though, Caylus is not lightweight, it can be very cutthroat.


OP, have you checked out Caylus?
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Gary Weis
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Shuko wrote:
veector wrote:
Yedo is exactly what you're looking for.

I think you might be right! It seems pretty cool so far from what I'm seeing. Seems a bit lengthy, though.

Actually, it isn't what you're looking for. If you like placing a worker and knowing what you're getting for that placement when you make your decision, Yedo is the complete opposite of that.
 
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David K.
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The Manhattan Project

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L VonMeister
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Definitely get the Skullport expansion for LoW.
It adds a great deal to the base game - different Lords with different ways to earn points, more locations, corruption. It's worth it.
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