Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Risk: Star Wars Edition» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Rebel winning strategy - rush to redeem Vader rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jeffrey Smith
United States
Bel Air
MD - Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Empire should deploy Ties and attack, attack, attack. Get the Executor moves forward and attack. Surround the Death Star with swarms of Ties and attack. When you draw the Death Star card, attack the fleets. Clear sectors to earn bonus cards and then attack. Did I mention attack?

Darth Vader will be turned, the shield will come down, but more often than not you will eliminate the Rebels.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
matzi1, do you play with the clarified rule set?

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1447610/some-rules-clarific...

I am sure one can counter your wife's strategy effectively, and that is while she is busy beating up Vader and moving forward on the Endor Track, the Death Star and the TIEs will decimate the Rebel fleet massively, leaving very little left that could actually attack the Death Star.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
Don't believe the lies! A wooden stake to the heart will kill just about anything.
badge
May be YOUR' a grammer not see
Avatar
Microbadge: Thanos Rising fanMicrobadge: Swords & Sorcery fanMicrobadge: Magic Realm fanMicrobadge: Middle-earth Quest fanMicrobadge: Starship Troopers fan
I prefer the rush to redeem strategy myself.

On average, a Luke attack card will result in 2 damage and you need to cause 9 damage to Vader. Five attacks should do it and with so many Luke Attack cards in the deck, you shouldn't have any problem inflicting 9 damage by the second turn. Chances are you'll have a Redeem card available and you used that as your third action on the 2nd turn.

A counter argument that I've read is: If it takes you 6 actions to Redeem Vader to receive the 5 bonus cards, then you haven't really gained anything. Why try to redeem Vader at all?

I like to use those 5 bonus cards to move ships from the fleet sectors or maybe even take out the Executor if it has moved too close. The Empire won't be able to react during the bonus card actions! Save the Endor track for later.

Another argument is: If Vader is redeemed early, then the Empire has no other options except the Space battle for the rest of the game.

By not redeeming Vader early, the Empire player will likely waste Vader Attacks or even Emperor cards on Luke. It takes about 7 actions to kill Luke so this can work out even better than Vader Redemption! How good are you at taunting?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
robertg611 wrote:

A counter argument that I've read is: If it takes you 6 actions to Redeem Vader to receive the 5 bonus cards, then you haven't really gained anything. Why try to redeem Vader at all?
Indeed, that is a very good question, because if you rush the Endor track right from the start you can win even earlier. Plus, you need some luck to get a redeem card early. If it does not show up, you still win the fight against Vader, but get less bonus cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Watson
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Copper ReviewerMicrobadge: Star Wars: Epic Duels fanMicrobadge: Star Wars: Outer Rim fanMicrobadge: Fantasy Flight Games "Heroes of Terrinoth" Contest ParticipantMicrobadge: Cthulhu fan
Jamiri wrote:
robertg611 wrote:

A counter argument that I've read is: If it takes you 6 actions to Redeem Vader to receive the 5 bonus cards, then you haven't really gained anything. Why try to redeem Vader at all?
Indeed, that is a very good question, because if you rush the Endor track right from the start you can win even earlier. Plus, you need some luck to get a redeem card early. If it does not show up, you still win the fight against Vader, but get less bonus cards.
Good point. But don't you also 1) prevent the Imperial player from getting the bonus cards for eliminating Luke 2) get to play the bonus cards in a row, unanswered by the Imperial player.

Shouldn't these be factored in to the pluses of this strategy?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
Don't believe the lies! A wooden stake to the heart will kill just about anything.
badge
May be YOUR' a grammer not see
Avatar
Microbadge: Thanos Rising fanMicrobadge: Swords & Sorcery fanMicrobadge: Magic Realm fanMicrobadge: Middle-earth Quest fanMicrobadge: Starship Troopers fan
I actually did mention the bonus cards.

Plus having the Empire spend about 7 cards trying to eliminate Luke, please, that's 28 TIE Fighters that aren't getting deployed or 35 attack dice shredding the rebel squadrons. I don't think that the Empire should ever play Darth Vader or Emperor actions.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Cheng
Taiwan
Taipei City
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
jbbnbsmith wrote:
The Empire should deploy Ties and attack, attack, attack. Get the Executor moves forward and attack. Surround the Death Star with swarms of Ties and attack. When you draw the Death Star card, attack the fleets. Clear sectors to earn bonus cards and then attack. Did I mention attack?

Darth Vader will be turned, the shield will come down, but more often than not you will eliminate the Rebels.
I see one of the Empire player does just that: ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

The Rebel player was too slow to response and his starfleet get wipe out. However, he still manage to take down the shield, and still has a chance with his last surviving Falcon one move away from attacking the Death Star. Too bad the Death Star shoot up Calrissian and co. and win.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Victor J
Australia
Sydney
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
eunoia wrote:

I see one of the Empire player does just that: ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

The Rebel player was too slow to response and his starfleet get wipe out. However, he still manage to take down the shield, and still has a chance with his last surviving Falcon one move away from attacking the Death Star. Too bad the Death Star shoot up Calrissian and co. and win.
I've tried a few times against the Imperial tactic of outright attacks and TIE deployments. From my limited experience, this will defeat a rebel player who only does Endor actions, ignoring everything else. I tried (as a counter) doing at least 2 fleet actions a turn - but as you mentioned above, it gives time for the Death Star (and others) to clear fleet tiles, an the Death Star can then directly attack the fighters. So getting Endor resolved quickly is still vital.

I have tried OP suggestion of solely concentrating on redeeming Vader, but, has been mentioned previously, you sacrifice a lot of actions that could have been used on something else earlier in the game. It didn't make the impact I thought with consecutive actions. One problem is that you are forced to use cards that may not have the actions you really need at the time.

The best balance I found so far as rebels is at least 1 action per turn on the fleet, and 2 on Endor. Sadly, the Luke/Darth fight is ignored by both sides....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
VictorJ wrote:

Sadly, the Luke/Darth fight is ignored by both sides....
I think that's true and that is really due to the fact that apart from the bonus cards there is no other impact on the rest of the game. That was much better implemented in Queen's Gambit, where the winning Jedi/Sith could join the general palace battle and really turn the tide of it, sometimes even on the last minute.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Victor J
Australia
Sydney
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamiri wrote:

I think that's true and that is really due to the fact that apart from the bonus cards there is no other impact on the rest of the game. That was much better implemented in Queen's Gambit, where the winning Jedi/Sith could join the general palace battle and really turn the tide of it, sometimes even on the last minute.
That idea from Queens Gambit sounds good. In the movie (episode 6), a major effect of the Luke/Darth fight was to remove both the Emperor and Darth Vader (the Imperial high command) from directing the space fight, or defending Endor. If Darth was freed to wreak havoc amongst the rebels after defeating Luke it would be interesting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
tom tom
United States
Springfield
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What about making the fight worthwhile?
If Darth wins, it takes the rebels a roll of 5,6 or 6,6 to destroy the death star, not just a roll of 6.
If Luke wins, the Executor can not deploy any more Tie fighters.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1qwerty wrote:
What about making the fight worthwhile?
If Darth wins, it takes the rebels a roll of 5,6 or 6,6 to destroy the death star, not just a roll of 6.
If Luke wins, the Executor can not deploy any more Tie fighters.
Yes, something like that would have been great. Or have Vader go out in his TIE Advanced to wreak some havoc on the Rebel fighters....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Blumentritt
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
A counter argument that I've read is: If it takes you 6 actions to Redeem Vader to receive the 5 bonus cards, then you haven't really gained anything. Why try to redeem Vader at all?
Well, you don't have to take those 6 actions right away, and your opponent doesn't know when you are going to take them. But if you get those 5, you generally know right from the start that you will get 5 unopposed actions, which means you can take intermediate risks that you normally never would.

One thing on the personal combat, though, if you lose it you need to lose it big - because that means that while you were losing it, you got ahead somewhere else on the board. If BOTH sides fight tooth and nail with Luke & Vader, the loser will almost certainly lose the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Odyzeus Longbow
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only played the game twice, both with the FAQ rules, and the Empire won both times.
In both of them one of the deciding factors was the death star lucky rolls chaining 3+ cards. In one game it was on the same turn Vader was redeemed,limiting that bonus effectiveness.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tod Andrew
Australia
Wollongong
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi

I have a newby question about redeeming Vader.

Can Vader be redeemed in just 2 actions?
That is, Luke attacks him and this takes Vader to the 1 or 2 or 3 damage spot. And then play the redeem Vader card, and get 5 bonus cards? Yet if Vader is defeated the normal way it takes longer and there is only 3 bonus cards?

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Blumentritt
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How is Luke going to do that much damage in one roll?

Quote:
? Yet if Vader is defeated the normal way it takes longer and there is only 3 bonus cards?
The only reason to kill Vader would be if Luke is at low health and is in danger of being defeated first, and the Rebels don't have the Redeem symbol available, so better to get 3 cards than have the Empire get 4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tod Andrew
Australia
Wollongong
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Statalyzer wrote:
How is Luke going to do that much damage in one roll?

I was assuming that the Vader token started on zero and hence one successful action would take it to the 1, 2 or 3 spot?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Cheng
Taiwan
Taipei City
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
tod_13 wrote:
Statalyzer wrote:
How is Luke going to do that much damage in one roll?

I was assuming that the Vader token started on zero and hence one successful action would take it to the 1, 2 or 3 spot?
Vader start with 13 "health". Those are not damages.

Remember in the movie, Luke redeem Vader "at the end". How's that transit to the game when Luke would be able to redeem Vader right from the start?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tod Andrew
Australia
Wollongong
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks. So the damage tracks count down.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Odyzeus Longbow
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tod_13 wrote:
Thanks. So the damage tracks count down.
The health tracks count down, all of them.
Technichally Vader's is the only one where this matters.

Oh, and the Endor track goes from the 2's to the 5's.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Mayhem
msg tools
If the Rebel player rushes to redeem Vader, the best use of the extra cards would be to make a reckless assault on the executor. The stormtroopers' presence on the Endor track only adds +1 so it doesn't really affect the odds enough to make the hastening of the shield battle necessary. The only winning strategy for the Rebels is to attack the Executor as quickly as possible and thus make the central battle a cake walk.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Hastriter
United States
Shalimar
FL
flag msg tools
I agree, if BOTH sides fight tooth and nail with Luke & Vader, the loser will almost certainly lose the game. It will be a short fight but it will end in sadness for the loser. Like moving to the black knight quest in Shadows over Camelot. You don't really want to fight the black knight when he has no black cards, but you also don't want to fight him when he has too many. Better to use actions elsewhere if you are going to lose, and better to use actions elsewhere if the other side is not playing. What they need is a slight tweak where in the round if either Vader or Luke gets a hit on the other then a +1 token is given as a reward.

Lots of talk has been given about the ability to re-roll based on remaining life. This will only end in what we don't want thematically, everyone Redeeming Vader or Killing Luke before the space battle has even begun! Not only is this bad thematically, it ruins fun as game balance gets thrown out the window, especially if the ability to re-roll is kept even after one side gets the bonus cards. How do we stop all three of the first rounds cards to be lightsabers? Introduce a +1 token that is given out once per round (when you draw cards) if the lightsabers connected in that round. There would be only 1 token per side in the game so you may not want to lightsaber twice unless you were going for one of those rush endor or bonus card strategies. Also in the next round if you didn't use the token (no die was ever 1 away) then there is no rush to kill Luke.

This way if Luke already has you down to half your life, and you've got a choice to destroy an empty space with a Death Star or slash at Luke, you might as well slash Luke and take a +1 token. If you use it up on the next turn, hitting him again the next round would be optimal. If you don't use it up, no need to hit him again.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls