Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Triumph & Tragedy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Multiple use of units ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
juerg haeberli
msg tools
To make sure I understand it correctely I would like to go through the following example.

In an open sea area there are a German and a Britissh AF block.

During the beginning of the seasons movent phase the Axis dow's the West.
This leads to immediate combat in the co occupied sea area.

After one sea combat round both AF's rebase.

During the movement phase of the same season the German AF that rebased can now move without limitations. ( It can move into disputed area or attack )

Would that be correct ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos Ferreira
Portugal
Porto Salvo
Porto Salvo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
haeberich wrote:
To make sure I understand it correctely I would like to go through the following example.

In an open sea area there are a German and a Britissh AF block.

During the beginning of the seasons movent phase the Axis dow's the West.
This leads to immediate combat in the co occupied sea area.

After one sea combat round both AF's rebase.

During the movement phase of the same season the German AF that rebased can now move without limitations. ( It can move into disputed area or attack )

Would that be correct ?
"This leads to immediate combat in the co occupied sea area."

Where did you get this? I would say that they will fight ONLY if they occupy the same area after movement phase is over, but I might me wrong.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fanMicrobadge: Fan of Formula 1 RacingMicrobadge: Riichi Mahjong fanMicrobadge: 2019 Gold Supporter
Each player in turn order executes all movement then all combat. A retreat or rebase naturally only occurs after the combat phase and at the end of your turn for that season.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools

Please check rules page 18 sidebar. ( ble section )

Units at Sea Upon a DoW
Upon a DoW, the declaring Faction
must vacate all Seas co-occupied with
[now] Enemy units (DisEngagement
rules apply), or initiate a Battle, with
the declarer as the Aggressor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fanMicrobadge: Fan of Formula 1 RacingMicrobadge: Riichi Mahjong fanMicrobadge: 2019 Gold Supporter
Nice. Did not see that. Don't even remember reading it, to be honest!

I would read this as a clarification due to how sea spaces work. The sidebar doesn't necessarily conflict with the turn sequence. You still may move, thus disengaging. Or stay, thus ending your movement, as if you had agressed that turn, and initiate a battle. As written, it looks like only aggressor and owner are designated here, and you are not required to attack. In other words, you haven't triggered the mandatory aggression attack.

But now I'm just guessing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools

The battle has to be immediately to clear ownership of the area.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fanMicrobadge: Fan of Formula 1 RacingMicrobadge: Riichi Mahjong fanMicrobadge: 2019 Gold Supporter
Why?

edit:

Thinking about it more, it looks like you've discovered another gap in the play sequence where the particular state of a game object is unknown. Here you're saying if you don't battle immediately, the sea space is friendly to neither faction as it hasn't been established yet. And knowing whether a sea space is friendly is important to movement. The sidebar tells us that if the declaring player stays and combats, he is the aggressor and his rival is the owner. But what about the time between the combat phase and the DoW? Interesting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fanMicrobadge: Fan of Formula 1 RacingMicrobadge: Riichi Mahjong fanMicrobadge: 2019 Gold Supporter
Doesn't the playbook address this situation? The axis has units occupying open seas with the west and then declares war.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools
I believe with the dow the area is still open seas and the retreat or the interim combat phase decide who controls it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Besinque
Canada
New Denver
BC
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
haeberich wrote:

The battle has to be immediately to clear ownership of the area.
That is not what was meant.

It means that once War is declared, formerly-Rival-but-now-Enemy units sharing a sea area are considered Engaged. The active unit may Disengage and leave the area, or remain. If it remains, Combat is mandatory during the Combat phase, with the Declarer as the Aggressor.

There is no "added" combat phase, everything proceeds normally.

Craig
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools

Ok,

What about ownership of the sea area during the movement phase where the dow was made ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Besinque
Canada
New Denver
BC
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Not sure why this matters, but since the DoWer is the Aggressor, I guess that makes the other guy the Owner.

Craig
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools
It matters for strat moves as an example.
The dowed as owner sounds good to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fanMicrobadge: Fan of Formula 1 RacingMicrobadge: Riichi Mahjong fanMicrobadge: 2019 Gold Supporter
What's interesting is that as soon as there is a DoW, the sea becomes an enemy sea for both rivals. The distinct terms owner and aggressor are necessary on land due to the multiple season battle possibility. With seas, there is always only one enemy faction occupying a sea space at the end of a season.

I don't think it actually matters for strategic movement whether the owner is defined. It is already not friendly, therefore strategic movement is prohibited, even for the "owner".

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls