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Subject: Separate individual games out from under greater "poker" category rss

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Joseph Pinkley
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Is there a way to petition that "poker" be split into its different incarnations, since they are separate games which only happen to use the same components?

I ask because I believe Texas Hold 'Em is a top 100 game, but the vast majority of the other games probably don't make the top 500. I would love to rate Texas Hold 'Em a 9 for my personal ratings, but I can't do so if it's lumped in with the rest.
 
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Adam Alleman
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I agree with this. I've been playing a variant called Open Face Chinese and love it more than any of the other variants. Although it could get tough being that there are hundreds of variants: http://www.amazon.com/Dealers-Choice-Complete-Handbook-Satur...

Oh and Omaha kicks Hold'em's ass.
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The Count
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I think that would be a mistake. It is the same game, but with different variants.

You can have favorite variants when you play, just like you might like a base game a 7, but with an expansion, you rate it a 9.

Rate it how you want.

But whether you play 5 card draw (which was the big game in my youth) to Texas Hokd'Em, they are the same game. Didn't you ever play dealer's choice where you can play a different variant every hand? It is still Poker.
 
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Joseph Pinkley
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droberts441 wrote:
You can have favorite variants when you play, just like you might like a base game a 7, but with an expansion, you rate it a 9.
And yet, BGG lists expansions separately precisely so you can do exactly that. To further my point, I'd like to point out that there are many re-implementations of games which have less rule changes than the difference between Hold 'Em and Omaha, yet are listed separately. Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization vs Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization, or the numerous second, third, fourth editions out there. (War of the Ring has two separate editions in the top 100.)

As a corollary to your dealer's choice point, I think it's worth noting from the player's point of view that he or she will almost always, actively, seek out a specific variant when entering a poker room. This implies that there's enough difference between variants to constitute being separate games.

As a hypothetical, failing to recognize poker variants as individual entities does a disservice to design space going into the future. I can very well imagine some innovative designer creating a component system where he or she can utilize the pieces in different ways with different rule sets to create a plethora of different games. (504 has already done this. Though tedious, I think it's a very realistic question whether or not we should list each of the 504 games separately.)
 
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Marc Gilutin
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Open Face Chinese Poker should definitely be on its own since it, or Chinese Poker for that matter, really isn't a poker game.
 
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Adam Alleman
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You can' fold. Every other version of poker allows you to fold.
 
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The Count
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SaphariGames wrote:
As a hypothetical, failing to recognize poker variants as individual entities does a disservice to design space going into the future. I can very well imagine some innovative designer creating a component system where he or she can utilize the pieces in different ways with different rule sets to create a plethora of different games. (504 has already done this. Though tedious, I think it's a very realistic question whether or not we should list each of the 504 games separately.)
I think we are just not going to agree about this.

Your point about 504 would be more in line with Traditional Card Games, and you can play Poker, Rummy, Cribbage, etc. with that "component system."

Those card games do have separate entries. But if I tell my friends we are playing Poker, we bring a poker set (cards, chips), and while we might play Hold'Em, we could play Omaha, 5 card draw, and 7 card stud, all the same night, all the same components, and the same game, since each hand isn't a separate game, but the end of the night pile is what the goal is (which BGG uses as a condition for being a "game;" it needs a winning condition.

The World Series of Poker Main event is No Limit Hold'Em, but they have other events with other variants, but everyone knows they are playing "Poker" and the game is so great because it can be played with multiple variants.

I don't need or want to subscribe to multiple entries on BGG to research the game or read articles about the game. I don't need or want to record my plays of Poker on multiple entries on BGG (let's see we played 5 hands of 5 card draw, 12 hands of Hold'Em, etc....but I only played one game that night in reality).

As a resource, BGG, should be a good resource for people to find out about the game, and even Wikipedia has one entry for the game, but list all the variants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker

BGG does make separate entries for the marketplace, when they are the same game. For monetary reasons, they have trended to make separate entries for ease of the Marketplace, but there are many of us on BGG that don't like that trend, but at least I understand their reasons if I don't agree with them.

There is no marketplace reason for separate entries for Poker. You list one Poker set, it's the same as another Poker set, and the differences are more in line with the "version" system.

It seems the only reason you want for a separate entry is do you can rank them differently. You can do that. On the bottom of the entry, you can add multiple copies to your collection, and you can name them differently, and rank them differently.
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apecage wrote:
Open Face Chinese Poker should definitely be on its own since it, or Chinese Poker for that matter, really isn't a poker game.
I think it already is.

Chinese Poker
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Adam Alleman
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Good points Dan. I agree. And thanks for pointing out the entry for OFC.
 
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