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Alright everyone, the Kickstarter campaign is now live! But that doesn’t mean it’s time to rest on our laurels.

We’ve found some wonderful volunteer translators to help us make the Perdition’s Mouth: Abyssal Rift rulebook available in French and Italian. But before anyone translates a single line, the original rulebook should be as close to perfection as possible. Here is where we turn to our fans and backers for help.

We know that fresh eyes will spot flaws that our team has missed from being too familiar with it. Since we have such a wonderful community around our game, we’re inviting you to an error spotting extravaganza that lasts until next Sunday (November 15th).

So, if you can find something in the text that isn’t up to the highest standards, post it here and let’s sort it out together.

Remember that the graphics are still mock ups that will definitely be replaced! But the text is currently in a condition that we can’t improve it any further by ourselves, and we’d like to make it certain that the rules are actually written well enough to pass muster with the players.

To participate:

1. Download the rulebook and read it thoroughly
2. Spot something that isn’t as good as it could be? Check these forums to see if there’s already a thread on the issue and add your comments.
3. If there’s no thread on the issue already, congratulation bug hunter! Start one and suggest fixes.
4. Go back to step 2 until its Monday (November 16th)

Thank you so much, and have fun!
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Thibaud Dejardin
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Some small things I noticed:

-Page 16-17: the rock of destiny image doesn't show exactly the spots the rules are refering to. It may make a little more difficult to grasp the concept of aimed shot/bash.

-Page 18: is this really usefull for game balance that threatening costs double after a special action? That seems the kind of rule I will keep forgetting...
The fact that moving requires double action points seems enought.



I slipped this: why would I destroy insectoid nests? They increase the threat level.

The rest seems perfect.
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Timo Multamäki
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Archange227 wrote:
Some small things I noticed:

-Page 16-17: the rock of destiny image doesn't show exactly the spots the rules are refering to. It may make a little more difficult to grasp the concept of aimed shot/bash.
Okay, any ideas how would you improve it?

Quote:
-Page 18: is this really usefull for game balance that threatening costs double after a special action? That seems the kind of rule I will keep forgetting...
The fact that moving requires double action points seems enought.
Good point. We will take this under consideration.


Quote:
I slipped this: why would I destroy insectoid nests? They increase the threat level.
Good question, but I think I have a good answer: If you kill all the nests in the level, no more insectoids can spawn. Or there are only two nests and you kill one, you know that all the rest of insectoids come from the other (which can be for instance far behind you). Yes, it increases threat, but especially if you plan to solve a scenario by killing everything (for instance to heal all wound cards away using Simmas special ability) you likely still want to kill nests first to make sure that you don't get most of enemies at all.

However, most often killing nests is just stupid.

Quote:
The rest seems perfect.
That is good to hear. Remember to give a thumb for the manual, then
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calpurnio pison

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i see a contradictory information here:

in the terrain table, pag 20, rubble terrain has a +2 action point penalty to enter. (i understand that if i enter in a rubble square, i have to pay 3 action points (1 standard + 2 for rubble).

but in the 1a scenario, the "rules reminder" sections says that "moving in to rublle costs an additional 1 action point". (and this means to pay 2 action point).
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Timo Multamäki
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calpurnio1973 wrote:
i see a contradictory information here:

in the terrain table, pag 20, rubble terrain has a +2 action point penalty to enter. (i understand that if i enter in a rubble square, i have to pay 3 action points (1 standard + 2 for rubble).

but in the 1a scenario, the "rules reminder" sections says that "moving in to rublle costs an additional 1 action point". (and this means to pay 2 action point).
A-haa, you found an actual bug. Congratulations. Scenario guide is wrong, rulebook is correct.

We'll have to correct the scenario guide.
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oddbod wrote:

(...)

We’ve found some wonderful volunteer translators to help us make the Perdition’s Mouth: Abyssal Rift rulebook available in French and Italian.

(...)
i want to aid in a spanish translation of rulebook. is there a group for the spanish translation? or could i start the translation for my own?
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Timo Multamäki
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calpurnio1973 wrote:
oddbod wrote:

(...)

We’ve found some wonderful volunteer translators to help us make the Perdition’s Mouth: Abyssal Rift rulebook available in French and Italian.

(...)
i want to aid in a spanish translation of rulebook. is there a group for the spanish translation? or could i start the translation for my own?
I don't speak spanish so I can't say for sure what is the status,
but I'd suggest that you'll write to spain@perditionsmouth.com and you'll be quickly replied.
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Jochen Wiesner
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I am sorry I cannot help on the english manual, but I am willing to actively support the translation of a german version.
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Dan
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I love all the folks volunteering to help with translations! It really speaks well of the community, which is why we love BGG so much

Even though I won't be able to read them, I'm excited to see the different versions of the rulebook.
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Timo Multamäki
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
I am sorry I cannot help on the english manual, but I am willing to actively support the translation of a german version.
That is very much positive thing. Please contact me over email and we'll work out detail, okay: timo.multamaki@dawnmatrix.com
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Timo Multamäki
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Do keep in mind to send the email for translation efforts. It's very hard to do it over BGG chat
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Thibaud Dejardin
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I'm re-readind the translation. Here are two remarks:

Small mistake in page 13, right box: "You only discard a non-wound card when you gain a wound from the wound deck." I would add that you also do it when you receive a victim card after saving a victim.

Question:
When Niffil takes his Special Action, he is considered to have a rest. But his pawn is on the Special Action on the Rock of Destiny, not on the Rest action. Does it mean that he can still Aid other players?

Thank you!
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Timo Multamäki
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Archange227 wrote:
I'm re-readind the translation. Here are two remarks:

Small mistake in page 13, right box: "You only discard a non-wound card when you gain a wound from the wound deck." I would add that you also do it when you receive a victim card after saving a victim.
Indeed. We'll add that too.


Quote:
Question:
When Niffil takes his Special Action, he is considered to have a rest. But his pawn is on the Special Action on the Rock of Destiny, not on the Rest action. Does it mean that he can still Aid other players?
Yes, he can still aid, as he is on Special.
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Dean Ray Johnson

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Archange227 wrote:
Small mistake in page 13, right box: "You only discard a non-wound card when you gain a wound from the wound deck." I would add that you also do it when you receive a victim card after saving a victim.
The next version of the rules will actually say that when you gain a card, you always gain it to the top of your deck rather than your hand. This removes a bit of fiddliness and prevents people from going over the hand limit.

Quote:
Question: When Niffil takes his Special Action, he is considered to have a rest. But his pawn is on the Special Action on the Rock of Destiny, not on the Rest action. Does it mean that he can still Aid other players?
That's a good one. I'll add a note on that in the FAQ.
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dreamshade wrote:
The next version of the rules will actually say that when you gain a card, you always gain it to the top of your deck rather than your hand. This removes a bit of fiddliness and prevents people from going over the hand limit.
Like in Mage Knight, that's a good idea. But since you don't draw hero cards each turn in PM, you may not have that wound in your hand until you take a Rest action, and that's not even sure, because you draw randomly.
Doesn't it make the game slightly easier?
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You can also draw a card when you take the ** Attack, Move, or Defend actions. It does make the game slightly easier, in that you're never forced to discard a card. However, as far as I can tell, it's not very common to be at your hand limit of cards. Your starting hand of cards is usually less than your maximum hand limit, so you shouldn't be discarding unless you've been hoarding cards.

** Let's see if I can remember the actions off the top of my head... The other actions are Bash/Aimed, Special, Sprint, and Charge, and none of those have you draw a card, so I think I'm right about this.
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dreamshade wrote:
You can also draw a card when you take the ** Attack, Move, or Defend actions. It does make the game slightly easier, in that you're never forced to discard a card. However, as far as I can tell, it's not very common to be at your hand limit of cards. Your starting hand of cards is usually less than your maximum hand limit, so you shouldn't be discarding unless you've been hoarding cards.

** Let's see if I can remember the actions off the top of my head... The other actions are Bash/Aimed, Special, Sprint, and Charge, and none of those have you draw a card, so I think I'm right about this.
Indeed. But getting close to your hand limit typically occurs when you start gathering wounds and not playing those. That's the most common way to meet the maximum hand size.
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Marco Küper
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I have the german version of PM:AR Revised Edition since February but was able to work through the rules about 2 months ago. Puhhh... Finaly I made my first two plays not being satisfied with the flow according to the rules: Lot’s of reading forewards and backwards to find what I was looking for knowing I read it somewhere, some italian phrases appearing at the beginning and the end of the rules, rule reminders in black boxes reminding me of something that never appeared in the rule text before or telling me something to remind of, that will be explained LATER in the rules, for example: Wound card explanations appearing at the beginning and the end of the rules instead of keeping them together (and how do I get rid of wound cards the propper way? Do I have to discard it as soon as I gain a HP? And do I have to have them wounds in my hands to discard it or do I even discard it when it‘s somewhere in the draw or discard pile?...)
It does seem much easier than some of my complex games within my collection but they offer a quite better understanding. I’m missing a a red line instead of jumping back and forth. And a glossary would have been nice, too.
Maybe it’s just me but IMHO the revised rules need to be revised...
Anyway: I loved it when I first saw the demo at Essen and I still like having it in my collection.
 
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Hi Marco,

Thank you for feedback. We've gotten quite a lot of feedback and based on that have updated the rules from 1st print run to Revised Edition you have. Vast majority of feedback has been quite the opposite that you write. Let me explain why - see below.

Mortiis wrote:
I have the german version of PM:AR Revised Edition since February but was able to work through the rules about 2 months ago. Puhhh... Finaly I made my first two plays not being satisfied with the flow according to the rules: Lot’s of reading forewards and backwards to find what I was looking for knowing I read it somewhere, some italian phrases appearing at the beginning and the end of the rules, rule reminders in black boxes reminding me of something that never appeared in the rule text before or telling me something to remind of, that will be explained LATER in the rules,
You are correct that German rulebook has two lines of Italian text. Apologies. We have made updated German rulebook recently. It took half a year for anyone to notice the lines and report to us, so possibly those are not really that offending.

We have explained every bit of rules in order that you need it. How do we know in which order you need it? I have personally taught the game 100+ times and that gives rather good view of how people typically learn. The rulebook is written so that you are intended to read it once through, entirely. After that 9/10 of players need just the back side reference sheet for 95% of play situations.

Quote:
for example: Wound card explanations appearing at the beginning and the end of the rules instead of keeping them together (and how do I get rid of wound cards the propper way? Do I have to discard it as soon as I gain a HP? And do I have to have them wounds in my hands to discard it or do I even discard it when it‘s somewhere in the draw or discard pile?...)
You do not get rid of wounds at all, unless Tresures aid you or Simma heals those away.
Wounds are element of negative deck building - you should aim to avoid Wounds. Of course, occasionally you will get wounds and then you need to PLAN when to get rid of those (by having Simma on a scenario during which you manage to heal those away).

Quote:
It does seem much easier than some of my complex games within my collection but they offer a quite better understanding. I’m missing a a red line instead of jumping back and forth.
Sad to hear that you're struggling. Did you by any chance use any of the videos that explain the rules. There are plenty of those. Vast majority of our players say that after introduction scenario is played they know how to play -- which is completely intentional. The introduction is made to teach you the play in a very hands-on way.

Quote:
And a glossary would have been nice, too.
Maybe it’s just me but IMHO the revised rules need to be revised...
Anyway: I loved it when I first saw the demo at Essen and I still like having it in my collection.
Glossary would have been nice. Indeed, but when asked from backers it didn't get that much enthustiasm. There were other things that were seen as more important and we did implement those. It is known that no matter how you do rulebook you can never make everyone completely happy.

If you have concrete suggestions (besides glossary) how to improve the rulebook, we are surely interested. Send us email with details, please, using info (at) ddpgames.com
 
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Marco Küper
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Hi Timo,

thanks for your quick response. First of all: I know your support is awesome like I knew it from our meeting at Essen this year (the issue about the german Hideout expansion ).

Of course it isn‘t easy to please every gamer and you propably won‘t reach all.

At first, I didn‘t want to write that at all. But when we played the first two games, there were lot´s of questions left for us that I tried to answer by looking through all the explicit rules sections, hardly knew that I’ve read some of them before.
And it took me so much time to find (and some I don‘t, even with forums or videos) that especialy my folks became more and more frustrated from searching. Example is the thing above: After you have answered, that you normaly do not get rid of wound cards at all, only with some wealth to find or special circumstances , I still cannot find that passage inside the rulebook itself.

My main issue is, that I miss the red line which makes it hard for me to find what I‘m looking for when needed. Like you said: Rules cannot make everyone happy, so I am the one out of hundred, who has to deal with that

The thing is: I love the whole thing about PM and want to please all the members of my gaming group by answering their questions. It would be sad if it would hit the table as a pure solo experience, only, just because my group starts to dislike it because of lack of understanding. That’s not what „your Baby“ diserves.


Just one thing: We had problems to figure out the right acting order of enemies with the german rules. The box on page 15 starts with the Rotikka followed by Boneworm and so on. Page from 26 and every following page the priority is switched to Boneworm>Rotikka>... and so on. Once we read the english rules we were sure Rotikka>Boneworm>... must be the right way, isn‘t it?
 
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David Hladky
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I remember one of the old German rulebook versions had this issue. I am not sure if it was fixed, I believed so, but there could have been some regression.

But the correct order is based on the enemy sheet from top to bottom (so that people do not need to remember the order). Even though I am pretty fluent in PM, the enemy sheet still helps.
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Marco Küper
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Thank you for the clarification , David! So we interpreted it the right way.
I read it somewhere in the rules, too, that the summery is a reminder of the sequence, which I like a lot. But it was opposite to what we found in the print version of the german revised rules which came with the game, so that we were not sure about that.
 
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