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Subject: Is Extraction mission really easier than Crossfire? rss

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Re: Is Extraction mission really easier that Crossfire?
Play Extraction and come back.

It's easier because there are fewer crossfire cards. There were different designers for the game and crossfire deck. My guess is the crossfire deck wasn't playtested with the game as much due to being created separately and possibly later.
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Jason Walker
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Re: Is Extraction mission really easier that Crossfire?
CoffeeRunner wrote:
It's easier because there are fewer crossfire cards.
I don't think so. The amount of Crossfire cards should be about the same: always 6 for Extraction, about 2 per round for Crossfire, but it may vary depending on the obstacles.

Extraction is generally easier because you don't have to defeat everything, and the mission gives you free HP or cards every round. You can also use the client to soak up some damage, keeping you alive longer.

I think Crossfire is the recommended starting mission (0 karma required) because it's a bit shorter and more straight-forward than Extraction.
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Brandon M
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Re: Is Extraction mission really easier that Crossfire?
CoffeeRunner wrote:
Play Extraction and come back.
This. It is still difficult. Shadowrun: Crossfire doesn't come with a cake walk mission, but the extraction mission is doable out of the box. I think of the 1 extra karma as being a bonus since there is no karma for an aborted Extraction.

My Stats at the time of this post:
Crossfire Mission with 2 runners: 2 Wins, 4 Aborts, 10 Losses
Crossfire Mission with 3 runners: 3 Wins, 3 Aborts, 0 Losses

Extraction Missions with 1 runner: 2 Wins, 5 Losses
Extraction Missions with 2 runner: 1 Wins, 3 Losses
Extraction Missions with 3 runner: 1 Wins, 1 Losses

I also didn't keep track of karma while I was learning the game, so probably 8-12 of my 35 plays were pre-karma and only the most recent 10 or so have had any upgrades.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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From 2 players point of view Extraction is infinitely easier compared to Crossfire and if you look at the win condition and number of positive vs negative effects between these two missions, you can see why. I actually don't remember losing Extraction (though it definitely happened, just rarely).
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Jay Rey
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When you play with 2 players and you play really well you can enter 3rd Scene of Crossfire mission with only one Hard Obstacle. It is doable for sure. Usually however it lasts longer and it's way more complicated. Sometimes even three turns are not enough to clear the way in one Scene. Success in Crossfire mission (and in general in S:C) depends on how fast and effective you are and how many CS cards you can avoid in the meantime.

The difference between Crossfire and Extraction missions is that when you play Extraction the pace is fixed by scenario itself - not by yourself and how effective you are. You won't be able to play around for extra turn or two or to speed up, so I would say it is not easier just different. The number of obstacles may look smaller but it is enough for sure. Especially when some new ones show up every turn. And you get CS cards from the beginning thus no easier start for less that 4 runners here.

So again, in my opinion it is not easier scenario - just different. And some people may simply like it more and find it better because of that .

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kompan wrote:

The difference between Crossfire and Extraction missions is that when you play Extraction the pace is fixed by scenario itself - not by yourself and how effective you are. You won't be able to play around for extra turn or two or to speed up, so I would say it is not easier just different.
In Crossfire you have to
a) live
b) kill all

for an indeterminate amount of rounds

In Extraction, you have to
a) live

for a fixed number of rounds.

Yes, it's different. And easier, too. Extraction can be won by tanking some obstacles and just manage the healing. Most often, in last 2-3 rounds, you can even give up fighting them.

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Jay Rey
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rattkin wrote:
kompan wrote:

The difference between Crossfire and Extraction missions is that when you play Extraction the pace is fixed by scenario itself - not by yourself and how effective you are. You won't be able to play around for extra turn or two or to speed up, so I would say it is not easier just different.
In Crossfire you have to
a) live
b) kill all

for an indeterminate amount of rounds

In Extraction, you have to
a) live

for a fixed number of rounds.

Yes, it's different. And easier, too. Extraction can be won by tanking some obstacles and just manage the healing. Most often, in last 2-3 rounds, you can even give up fighting them.

I have to admit that I played the Extraction mission with the expansion cards only and my impression is you won't be able anymore to tank and survive when you focus just on healing. Not all the time anyway. New obstacles with 'Lethal' ability could end the game like this very quickly. When obstacle is 'Lethal' it means that if it damages you enough you won't be staggered but go instantly critical same turn. And that is game over .


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Fatty Magee
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I have the feeling some people may be playing extraction wrong as well.

When you go staggered you tank a lot of damage but you also move all your obstacles in front of that runner to the client. That can easily end the game at the end of that round if that leads to 2+ obstacles on the client or he's already down some health. It's an easy thing to forget to move those obstacles.

Also, you can only move 1 obstacle from only 1 of your role colors to you once per turn from the client. The number of times I've flipped up 3 of the same color is angered me beyond counting at this point. If you don't have anyway to cancel that damage or kill the majority that round then you most likely won't be winning that game.

Just like crossfire it's all about what your dealt. I've had more success with crossfire than I've had with extraction personally.

Edit: I said main role color but that's actually incorrect. It's any color of a role you have. The problem of pulling the same color onto the client remains.
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Christopher Senn
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kompan wrote:
rattkin wrote:
kompan wrote:

The difference between Crossfire and Extraction missions is that when you play Extraction the pace is fixed by scenario itself - not by yourself and how effective you are. You won't be able to play around for extra turn or two or to speed up, so I would say it is not easier just different.
In Crossfire you have to
a) live
b) kill all

for an indeterminate amount of rounds

In Extraction, you have to
a) live

for a fixed number of rounds.

Yes, it's different. And easier, too. Extraction can be won by tanking some obstacles and just manage the healing. Most often, in last 2-3 rounds, you can even give up fighting them.

I have to admit that I played the Extraction mission with the expansion cards only and my impression is you won't be able anymore to tank and survive when you focus just on healing. Not all the time anyway. New obstacles with 'Lethal' ability could end the game like this very quickly. When obstacle is 'Lethal' it means that if it damages you enough you won't be staggered but go instantly critical same turn. And that is game over .


I might remove those lethal cards from the deck. They are too much of a game breaker for me.
 
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Christopher Senn
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Th334 wrote:
Grove123 wrote:
I might remove those lethal cards from the deck. They are too much of a game breaker for me.
Or focus fire on the lethal obstacle and defeat it before it can attack. Or prevent it from attacking. Or disable its special ability.

People were saying that the expansion makes the game a tad easier and more in-control, so maybe it won't be a problem for you after you get a hang of the new cards.

I think it's a nice mechanic, personally. Currently our 2-runner strategy uses "Got Your Backs" and "Shock Frills" synergy, and although it's strong, it'd be nice to have this threat of this strategy failing completely, if we rely on it too much.
maybe ill keep one in as a special enemy. But multiple?
 
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Christopher Senn
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Fattymagee wrote:
I have the feeling some people may be playing extraction wrong as well.

When you go staggered you tank a lot of damage but you also move all your obstacles in front of that runner to the client. That can easily end the game at the end of that round if that leads to 2+ obstacles on the client or he's already down some health. It's an easy thing to forget to move those obstacles.
Ya i forgot to do that.

Made the game way too easy.

I just completed a game last night and it was the most exhilarating mission yet. I used every card and every strategy and every hitpoint just to survive the last round.

I feel Rahdo is missing out not playing missions other than crossfire. In crossfire you stand your ground and you must kill everything. It really does feel like a game where you are throwing cards at an obstacle just to defeat it. Its a very 1,2,3 process

In Extraction you have the extra options of letting the client take the hit or absorbing it yourself or letting a obstacle live, because it would take too much resources to defeat it.

I cant wait to try other missions now. Crossfire is the least impressive
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Christopher Senn
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Th334 wrote:
Chris,

I think the implicit reason Rahdo is saying that he can play Crossfire only all the time is to contrast it to the notion of a "mission" people might have. It's not a mission in the sense that you complete it a few times and get bored of doing the same thing. Instead, it's a different game mode.

Dominion comes with only 1 "mission", and Mage Knight comes with a few (Conquest, Co-op, PvP, etc.). I think his point is that Shadowrun does not need more than 1 mission to have great replay value, and it's true. I don't think he meant to say that other missions are inferior, he was just saying that they are not necessary, are extra bonuses, and people should stop saying "only 3 missions" like it's a bad thing.
Trying not to make this a Rahdo focused conversation. But in the expansion review that he did, he mentioned that even though the expansion comes with more missions, he never played anything else but crossfire. And i feel some of the other missions add more complexity and variety. So i was just thinking that Rahdo is missing out. The comment had nothing to do with the quality of the game
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Th334 wrote:
Would be particularly great to hear from people who have played both missions a lot.
Well, I've played Crossfire a couple dozen times but Extraction twice. I won both times and definitely felt it was easier. I still enjoyed it, and I think one of the strengths of the game is the way the missions vary on how they play and what you need to do to win.
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