Recommend
18 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Conflict of Heroes: Eastern Front – Solo Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: AI Movement & Order Instruction Clarifications rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
UPDATE MAR 29 2016: I've updated these per the v51 edition of the rules.
UPDATE APR 05 2016: I've updated the Vehicle Movement into Smoke and Up Hills rule


MOVE TOWARDS VS KEEP SAME DISTANCE wrote:
Towards - AI movement that does not increase the number of hexes to the Target. An AI may not decrease the number of hexes by moving into a Target's flank, moving into cover, or by pivoting. 'Towards' never allows movement away from the Target.

Q. What does that 2nd (highlighted) sentence mean exactly?

A. Better wording may be: An AI must strictly decrease the number of hexes between it and the Target -- unless it moves into a Target's flank, into cover, or pivots. 'Towards' never allows movement away from the Target.
VEHICLE MOVEMENT INTO CC wrote:
Q. "AI vehicles with bonus moves will attempt to flank a Player's Units before entering into Close Combat."

I.e. does that "attempt to flank" mean:

1. "a moving tank will flank during this move if possible, otherwise it will enter CC if possible"?
or
2. "tanks don't ever enter CC - they try to flank even if they can't flank during this particular move"?

A. Executing a Move Towards = The AI attempts to flank first. If able to flank OR enter CC, its happy to flank over entering CC. If still able to continue moving into CC after flanking, the AI will then continue moving into CC. If not able to reach flank but able to CC, then the AI will simply enter CC.

Executing a Low Risk Move Towards = The AI will only attempt to flank and will not enter CC even if still able.
VEHICLE MOVEMENT INTO SMOKE & UP HILLS wrote:
Remember that you cannot bonus move into +2 smoke; you can only bonus move into +1 smoke. So the only question is about the initial move of a vehicle into +2 smoke. However, movement into smoke on an initial move is no longer a question due to the new wording of rule 5.4. Smoke is now just like any other non-woods/building hex for Move Towards commands.

NOTE: This rule has been updated subsequent to the release on 3/28/16. The updated version from 4/5/16 is included below.

AI vehicles will not move into a hex that costs them more than 1AP AND prevents bonus movement, unless it is performing a Low Risk Move or executing a Command Order card.

This keeps an AI vehicle from slowing down or risking becoming spent too soon. It will be able to move into smoke since it costs nothing extra and uphill since it can still bonus move.
DETERMINING PROXIMITY wrote:
Q. How do you count proximity (for "closer" or "fewer") -- simply the number of hexes away (ignoring terrain) or number of hexes it would take to move to a target (due to a stone building in the way, for example)?

A. You just count the number of hexes away, ignoring terrain.

However, if there is no way to move the AI so that it is actually closer in that regard, then the next thing to try is to see if you can move it in such a way that it is fewer spaces the AI would have to move to reach the target hex.

So really, you use both. If you can get the AI closer in an "ignoring terrain" way, then that's what you do - if that doesn't work, do it in a way that takes the terrain into account.
PIVOTING wrote:
Q. Does/can the AI pivot after a normal move? I see in the rules that it is free to pivot after a Low risk move.

The reason I ask is that I had an AI group (2 units) move together towards a target but one was faced towards the target and the other was faced opposite the target. Would the opposite faced AI unit pivot as its move or would it move backwards then pivot, or would it simply move backwards and not pivot?

A. In most situations, the AI will backwards move and then pivot. However, sometimes when an AI who is in cover that is performing a low risk move may not move out of the cover into a lower DM hex. In this case, it would just pivot if it has to face an enemy.

I also want to clarify that a unit with bonus movement may pivot for one of its movements then continue with its bonus movement. Also, after each movement a unit with bonus movement makes into a hex, it may choose its facing.

So then, if two units facing different directions were adjacent (in open or road terrain), they could group move by:

1. Unit A pivots (for 1AP) to align facing with unit B (Unit B holds)

2. Both units move 1-2 bonus moves
MOVE/LOW RISK MOVE TOWARDS wrote:
Q1. When moving a unit, do you prioritize:

(a) first and always, decreasing the number of hexes, or

(b) other conditions even if it means not decreasing the number of hexes?

A. The AI will always try to move closer. If it can't it will then try to maintain the same distance and either move towards the Units flank or into better cover depending on how the tie breaker works out.

The normal movement rules are only about breaking ties between two viable hexes. Low Risk Moves add constraints to the movement and if there is more than one viable hex, the AI will use the normal movement rules to break the tie. If the AI can't decrease the distance for some reason (normally because of other AI in the way or the constraints of a low risk move), the AI will try to move to a equal distant hex if any of the hexes are better than its current hex using the normal movements tie breaker rules. This means into the Units flank, into better cover and then towards or Units flank.

Q2. Are AI Low Risk Moves distinct or separately prioritized from AI Movement Orders, or are they a sub-class of them? In other words, do we prioritize all conditions in the AI Movement Orders section first and only then just make sure the final move checks out against the Low Risk Move requirements... OR, do we look at the Low Risk Move section first and make sure we abide by it, and only then see if the stuff in the general 5.3 section changes up anything?

A. You follow the constraints of the Low Risk Move to decide what hex the AI will move into. If there is more than one viable hex, the AI uses the normal movement rules to break the tie. I should add if the tie cannot be broken you then randomly choose which hex the AI moves into.

Q3. Are the two AI Low Risk Move conditions "if not in a Fire Zone" ordered intentionally in a prioritized order, or are they both options and you pick one?

A. They are not ordered but both must be followed simultaneously. If not in a firezone, the AI will move into any hex that is not in a a Unit's firezone or a hex that is in a unit's firezone but has a defense modifier. They are split up to be easier to read.
AI FIRING INTO CC wrote:
The AI will fire into cc. This is something we considered blocking the AI from doing but in the end decided to allow it. This is because the player can do it, it made the AI more unpredictable (you couldn't use a spent AI as the ultimate cover, especially late in a game when there are not many CAP cards in the deck), and it just did not come up often enough to make a complicated conditional rule for players to remember.
RUMORED ENEMY MOVEMENT IN MISSION 3 wrote:
Q. How do the RE move in Mission #3?

A. This should be interpreted as all RE receive a blue bonus movement. They behave like tanks in every way... This means they pay 1 movement cost in open terrain with 1 additional bonus movement, where allowed.


GROUP FIRE wrote:
Q. When does the AI Group Fire?

A. For the reprint of the solo, group fire will be indicated on the card itself. For now, it is suggested to mark "Group Fire" on all Command cards (blue) that have a fire action.
DISENGAGE wrote:
Q. I noticed that the solo rules state that when an AI disengages from CC, it can/should move into a flanking hex of the attacking unit. However, the non-solo rules state that this is forbidden, you can only retreat.

A. A Unit only cannot move into an enemies flank the very next turn after the enemy moves into the Unit's hex. Either Unit can move into the flank on later turns. So the AI will try to do this [on a later turn] if it can just like a player can [otherwise it can only retreat]. See paragraph before the blue designer note in section 7.7.3 in the AtB rulebook.
17 
 Thumb up
7.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
uwe eickert
United States
Fremont
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Summary of AI Movement Clarifications
Great summary! I think people will find this useful.
Gunter
Academy Games
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
enzo622 wrote:
AI ORDER PRIORITY wrote:
You take the first condition then see how the second condition applies to it. In other words, LEFT to RIGHT.

For example: "Highest FP AI closest to Lowest DV Unit" -> FIRE

In this case, find the highest FP AI(s) (who have a shot; may not be highest FP on the board) and then among those which is closest to the lowest DV unit.

So if the highest FP AI (that had a shot) had 4FP and you had:

1) AI-1 FP4 is 4 away from DV12
2) AI-2 FP4 is 3 away from DV13 (and has no shot on DV12)

You would go with #1 because by default it is the closest to the lowest DV unit.

I'm going to question this. If AI-2 was 3 away from DV12 (but had no shot due to LoS, facing, whatever), it would still be the one to fire, only it would fire on DV13.

See Rulebook 5.0.1
Quote:
Closest and farthest specify which AI will take the action, not which target they will take the action against.
and a little later
Quote:
The AI will always take the action against its closest target.
Also see Example 09 in the back of the rulebook (Order Card Examples)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're right that "(and has no shot on DV12)" has no bearing because who a unit fires at is secondary to which unit activates.

But as to the rest of the post, I believe it's correct. AI-1 is still the "closest to the lowest DV unit." Remember, it's not closest to any unit, but to the lowest DV unit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Agreed and I get the point you were trying to make. My point was to clarify that your bit about having no shot on DV12 is irrelevant to determining which AI acts I see you've edited your post to remove that which is great because others may find it confusing!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moe45673 wrote:
Agreed and I get the point you were trying to make. My point was to clarify that your bit about having no shot on DV12 is irrelevant to determining which AI acts I see you've edited your post to remove that which is great because others may find it confusing!
Thanks, Moe. Any and all help is appreciated on keeping this stuff straight.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Your contributions, including videos, to this expansion have been invaluable in my own grokking of them. Thanks for putting in the time!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Houtz
msg tools
One last time please!
1: Are we or are we not allowed to make a full BONUS MOVE into or through +2 SMOKE?

2: Are AI or Units REQUIRED to make a full BONUS move? Rule 14.1 AtB says MAY.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
The hex you start off in doesn't matter. The hex you move into, and every hex after that, must be eligible for bonus movement. Starting from smoke is fine but moving into smoke at any part of a bonus movement (even ending) is not allowed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chub16823 wrote:
One last time please!
1: Are we or are we not allowed to make a full BONUS MOVE into or through +2 SMOKE?

2: Are AI or Units REQUIRED to make a full BONUS move? Rule 14.1 AtB says MAY.
As I wrote in the OP above, you can't bonus move into +2 smoke, only +1 smoke. The +2 smoke counter even has the "no bonus moves" reminder on it.

As to #2, if an AI can get to its command order goal -- say, a unit's flank --without using its full bonus move, then it's happy. Otherwise I would think it'd continue. But if you're asking if it must use its full bonus move in order to be eligible to activate -- no.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Houtz
msg tools
If the AI were to move 1 hex and into +2 smoke would that be considered a bonus move just because it is eligible to make bonus moves?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chub16823 wrote:
If the AI were to move 1 hex and into +2 smoke would that be considered a bonus move just because it is eligible to make bonus moves?
The rules say "+2DM Smoke negates bonus movement for that hex (14.1)." I would keep that as simple as it negates bonus movement in all cases. If you enter +2 smoke as a first move, you don't qualify for bonus moves. And you can't bonus move into a +2 smoke hex after entering an open hex first.

I can't say with 100% surety I'm correct, but keeping it as simple as possible feels right.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Houtz
msg tools
Thanks a bunch! I am really new to AtB and Solo and I want to get off on the right foot. I just needed to clear up some things so that I am in line with everyone else.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Carl, it sounds possibly like you're mixing up base game rules (which say what is physically possible for units to do, regardless whether they are human or AI controlled) with solo expansion rules about AI decisions (which say which physically possible move an AI will select to actually do).

The AI units follow the base game rules for movement in pretty much all respects (AFAIK), e.g. paying costs according to the terrain table and so on, just like your human hunits. E.g. +2 DM smoke prevents bonus movement, so if a tank (whether AI or human) moves into +2 DM smoke, it cannot make bonus moves during that move, i.e. it can only move 1 hex.

The OP of this thread clarifies the AI policies in certain potentially confusing situations. E.g. an AI moving toward a target tries to get closer to the target if possible.

So (unless I'm deeply confused), if an AI is in a situation where moving into +2 DM smoke moves it closer than any other move it could make (e.g. due to buildings or other obstacles everywhere else it could go), then it will move into that +2 DM smoke (and it will not have a bonus move, because that's what the movement rules say in the base game). It will not gratuitously move some other route with several hexes of bonus movement that do not bring it closer to its target just for the sake of using bonus movement, if it can forego bonus movement and actually get closer to its target. Nor will it magically be able to do bonus movement through +2 DM smoke just because it's an AI unit.

(...Right?)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lewis Karl
United States
Vienna
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I believe there is no reason you can't make a bonus move into a hex with terrain that is eligible as a bonus move target. The rule limiting AI movement is meant only to ensure the bonus movement can be taken. A hex preventing bonus movement can be a target for bonus movement from another hex. I believe this is a literal interpretation of the rule.But I don't have rules at hand to check.

Sorry that is incorrect. Checking the AtB2 rules:

"A unit with a bonus move symbol(s) on its counter, that pays to move
into terrain that lists one of these symbols, may take one free bonus
move for every symbol on its counter. The bonus move(s) must be
taken into terrain that allows this type of bonus move
."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Houtz
msg tools
All I really wanted to know is; Is there any circumstance/rule, while playing Solo Mission #2, where a tank can penetrate a +2 smoke wall! If yes, then how? It's easy to build the wall as the player, how does the AI get through it or can it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lewis Karl
United States
Vienna
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
AI can Low Risk Move into smoke from an adjacent hex (provided all other rules for Low Risk Move allow it). Rules have always been clear on that. The next turn they could move out.

Given the recent solo rule update regarding Move Towards, a Tank can NOW also move into +2 smoke in clear terrain on a Move Towards command from an adjacent hex. The [rule] now disallows movement into a hex that cost more than 1AP AND restricts bonus movement. Moving into smoke in clear terrain by a vehicle with 1 AP movement cost only costs 1 AP, so the AND condition is False.

Prior to this rule change, the Move Towards would not allow a vehicle to enter a hex that restricted bonus movement.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Houtz
msg tools
That was my take on the rule change and I was looking for conformation. That's what I needed to know. Sorry if I didn't word it right.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
uwe eickert
United States
Fremont
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pisqueeter wrote:
AI can Low Risk Move into smoke from an adjacent hex (provided all other rules for Low Risk Move allow it). Rules have always been clear on that. The next turn they could move out.

Given the recent solo rule update regarding Move Towards, a Tank can NOW also move into +2 smoke in clear terrain on a Move Towards command from an adjacent hex. The [rule] now disallows movement into a hex that cost more than 1AP AND restricts bonus movement. Moving into smoke in clear terrain by a vehicle with 1 AP movement cost only costs 1 AP, so the AND condition is False.

Prior to this rule change, the Move Towards would not allow a vehicle to enter a hex that restricted bonus movement.
Lewis' interpretation is correct.
Gunter
Academy Games
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raph Moimoi
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
@Kurt : maybe you should add Command cards that require firing at a unit now make the AI do a group fire if able (the larget group). Rules are not modified but cards will be.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pikaraph wrote:
@Kurt : maybe you should add Command cards that require firing at a unit now make the AI do a group fire if able (the larget group). Rules are not modified but cards will be.
Sorry, can you elaborate or provide a link, please?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raph Moimoi
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
enzo622 wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
@Kurt : maybe you should add Command cards that require firing at a unit now make the AI do a group fire if able (the larget group). Rules are not modified but cards will be.
Sorry, can you elaborate or provide a link, please?
Gunter's PM answer :
"Hi Ralph,
We are looking into putting a date on the rules on the website so you can tell if they are newer.
For the reprint of the solo, group fire is indicated on the card itself so we did not have to create a specific rule. The rules online are what will be included in the reprint. I brought the rule up in the forums since it would not be stated in the rules but on the new cards. I suggest marking group fire on all command cards that have a fire action.
Gunter
Academy Games"
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pikaraph wrote:
enzo622 wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
@Kurt : maybe you should add Command cards that require firing at a unit now make the AI do a group fire if able (the larget group). Rules are not modified but cards will be.
Sorry, can you elaborate or provide a link, please?
Gunter's PM answer :
"Hi Ralph,
We are looking into putting a date on the rules on the website so you can tell if they are newer.
For the reprint of the solo, group fire is indicated on the card itself so we did not have to create a specific rule. The rules online are what will be included in the reprint. I brought the rule up in the forums since it would not be stated in the rules but on the new cards. I suggest marking group fire on all command cards that have a fire action.
Gunter
Academy Games"
So, I'm to interpret any Command card (blue) orders to fire as Group Fire now? Didn't realize that. Thanks.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Schaller
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I like that change. It makes sense that the AI would group fire in that situation, since on a Command card there's no possibility of being spent, so there's no downside for the AI.

Of course, there's a big downside for us players!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raph Moimoi
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
enzo622 wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
enzo622 wrote:
Pikaraph wrote:
@Kurt : maybe you should add Command cards that require firing at a unit now make the AI do a group fire if able (the larget group). Rules are not modified but cards will be.
Sorry, can you elaborate or provide a link, please?
Gunter's PM answer :
"Hi Ralph,
We are looking into putting a date on the rules on the website so you can tell if they are newer.
For the reprint of the solo, group fire is indicated on the card itself so we did not have to create a specific rule. The rules online are what will be included in the reprint. I brought the rule up in the forums since it would not be stated in the rules but on the new cards. I suggest marking group fire on all command cards that have a fire action.
Gunter
Academy Games"
So, I'm to interpret any Command card (blue) orders to fire as Group Fire now? Didn't realize that. Thanks.
Maybe Gunter will comment about this, but this gives the AI a way to get group fire, that's a good thing to get it play as a human player would.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |