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Subject: First turn hire - Trainer rss

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Hello all,
I have played the full game 3 times, 1 with 4, and 2 with 5, so my reasoning for my first turn hire will be largely based off of that.
I would also say that I have NOT "figured out the game", but rather in my small sample size this is what I have observed and used to good effect.

First turn hire - Trainer

With that you have the milestone for 15 free salary a turn. I think that this milestone gives you the most flexibility throughout the course of the game. I feel it is easier to get more usefulness from the 15 free salary than any other early milestone. This could also be map and player dependent, but as stated, this is based on a fairly full complement of players.

I also really enjoy the options that I get on turn 3 and following. I can grow my company with a couple skilled employees, and gives me flexibility to react to what other players around are doing.

In our experience, I have never seen this strategy backfire, and the player that has one each of the three games did hire a trainer first turn. As for the next best move, I am certain that that is entirely map / player dependent and doubt there is one hire / train that is better than the rest in any circumstance.

Thanks for hearing me out.
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Dave Eisen
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I know nothing at all having finally played a game where I did not get completely crushed from turn one, but it feels to me like this is going for a relatively lean company of trained people as opposed to the "obvious" first move of hiring a Recruiting Girl. Or at least obvious when you don't factor in the various milestones.

And this looks like something which will be more successful in a short game. In a longer game, I want a larger staff.
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Cole Wehrle
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I'm six plays in.

The trainer is my default first hire, but I've only won a couple times. I haven't seen a pattern among winning players yet as far as their early turns go. Getting the first marketer out is a big deal too. The last game I played also saw turn 1: hiring girl, 2: hiring girl/waitress, 3: 3 waitresses. Those waitresses almost pulled that player to victory by themselves. With a couple of errand boys they were able to grab a few food sales and managed to get both the first to 20 and first to 100 milestones.

In fact, if there's one milestone that seems all-powerful, it's the one you get for getting to 100 bucks. If you can snag that alone, you have a significant edge. In practice it usually goes to the players who were gunning for early profits over efficiency and development. In 5 of the 6 games I've played the player with that milestone won.
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Asher D.
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I think trainer will also depend on number of players, and will be even stronger with a low number of players, due to the smaller number of 1x employees.
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dkeisen wrote:
I know nothing at all having finally played a game where I did not get completely crushed from turn one, but it feels to me like this is going for a relatively lean company of trained people as opposed to the "obvious" first move of hiring a Recruiting Girl. Or at least obvious when you don't factor in the various milestones.

And this looks like something which will be more successful in a short game. In a longer game, I want a larger staff.


This is a move for the larger staff. Turn two, hire and train to Junior VP (level 2 management)
Turn 3 high the level 3 hiring lady (cannot for the life of me remember her name)

It is quite realistic to have either, a very efficient engine, or a very large one, or a very early money pumping one.
In my last game I rushed to the Guru asap, and then hired and trained direct to the radio marketing. I was the first one to do that and it was popping two burgers onto 7 houses for most of the game. First to advertise burgers, first to 100, first to 20, first errand boy, first to cook a burger, and first to train. 555 dollars out of a possible 1050 + end turn income.

I would agree the absolute best milestone is the first to 100. Your CEO as a CFO saves a spot, 1 hire, and 4 trainings. That is huge.
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mfl134
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I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.
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Scott Nelson
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I've won with the first turn Trainer too. Open slots are harder than having the cash to pay for the salaried staff while on the beach being trained to higher positions. I got the 10 slot guy in short time, and that was soooo nice. Big company arose from that decision to train first. I do miss the refridgerator though devil
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I don't know which Milestones are the best but there are certainly some great ones.

I love first Errand Boy, first Waitress, first...

Oh crap, I love to dang many!
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Mabuchi wrote:
dkeisen wrote:
I know nothing at all having finally played a game where I did not get completely crushed from turn one, but it feels to me like this is going for a relatively lean company of trained people as opposed to the "obvious" first move of hiring a Recruiting Girl. Or at least obvious when you don't factor in the various milestones.

And this looks like something which will be more successful in a short game. In a longer game, I want a larger staff.


This is a move for the larger staff. Turn two, hire and train to Junior VP (level 2 management)
Turn 3 high the level 3 hiring lady (cannot for the life of me remember her name)

It is quite realistic to have either, a very efficient engine, or a very large one, or a very early money pumping one.
In my last game I rushed to the Guru asap, and then hired and trained direct to the radio marketing. I was the first one to do that and it was popping two burgers onto 7 houses for most of the game. First to advertise burgers, first to 100, first to 20, first errand boy, first to cook a burger, and first to train. 555 dollars out of a possible 1050 + end turn income.

I would agree the absolute best milestone is the first to 100. Your CEO as a CFO saves a spot, 1 hire, and 4 trainings. That is huge.


how many players was this? What was your opponent doing?
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Rafael Hannula
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I have played four 4-5p games thus far. In my opinion if there is a place at the start where you have one static income source (with one marketing milestone 15$ in a turn) that's better option than 1st turn trainer.
This way you get your engine going AND you get the money for the salaries. You can also snatch the 20$ salary milestone most of the time if you want it.

My start in the most recent game was Recruiting girl -> Marketing trainee, Errand boy (freezer, +1 drink from suppliers, +5$ per drink sold and eternal marketing).
If multiple guys are going for 1st turn trainer (slow start with milestones) you can do Recruiting girl -> Recruiting girl, Marketing trainee/errand boy -> Trainer + 2 other picks depending on the situation + 2 extra management trainees from the milestone.
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mfl134 wrote:
I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.

If nobody else gets a recruiting girl the first turn, you can even postpone the second recruiting girl for one round and can still be sure to get the 3 hires milestone. But still you can get the freezer and the drink marketing.
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ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.

If nobody else gets a recruiting girl the first turn, you can even postpone the second recruiting girl for one round and can still be sure to get the 3 hires milestone. But still you can get the freezer and the drink marketing.


I want to deny the milestone to the person who grabs the first turn trainer though.
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rayffis wrote:
I have played four 4-5p games thus far. In my opinion if there is a place at the start where you have one static income source (with one marketing milestone 15$ in a turn) that's better option than 1st turn trainer.
This way you get your engine going AND you get the money for the salaries. You can also snatch the 20$ salary milestone most of the time if you want it.

My start in the most recent game was Recruiting girl -> Marketing trainee, Errand boy (freezer, +1 drink from suppliers, +5$ per drink sold and eternal marketing).
If multiple guys are going for 1st turn trainer (slow start with milestones) you can do Recruiting girl -> Recruiting girl, Marketing trainee/errand boy -> Trainer + 2 other picks depending on the situation + 2 extra management trainees from the milestone.


That is fine in theory, but I have seen eternal marketing bite people in the ass big time. Trainer is the safe move that gives no one else the opportunity to use you. My first win was accomplished while only obtaining 3 milestones, and none of them were boosting sales of items.
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mfl134 wrote:
Mabuchi wrote:
dkeisen wrote:
I know nothing at all having finally played a game where I did not get completely crushed from turn one, but it feels to me like this is going for a relatively lean company of trained people as opposed to the "obvious" first move of hiring a Recruiting Girl. Or at least obvious when you don't factor in the various milestones.

And this looks like something which will be more successful in a short game. In a longer game, I want a larger staff.


This is a move for the larger staff. Turn two, hire and train to Junior VP (level 2 management)
Turn 3 high the level 3 hiring lady (cannot for the life of me remember her name)

It is quite realistic to have either, a very efficient engine, or a very large one, or a very early money pumping one.
In my last game I rushed to the Guru asap, and then hired and trained direct to the radio marketing. I was the first one to do that and it was popping two burgers onto 7 houses for most of the game. First to advertise burgers, first to 100, first to 20, first errand boy, first to cook a burger, and first to train. 555 dollars out of a possible 1050 + end turn income.

I would agree the absolute best milestone is the first to 100. Your CEO as a CFO saves a spot, 1 hire, and 4 trainings. That is huge.


how many players was this? What was your opponent doing?


5 Player, and I couldn't tell you what my opponents were doing, other than that they left burgers open for me. I will say that the map was difficult as all the houses were connected to all the restaurants on the 5 x 4 grid. It was tough for marketing because everything was so accessible.
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mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.

If nobody else gets a recruiting girl the first turn, you can even postpone the second recruiting girl for one round and can still be sure to get the 3 hires milestone. But still you can get the freezer and the drink marketing.


I want to deny the milestone to the person who grabs the first turn trainer though.


If you can hire 3+ people in a turn, it is only a minor setback to not get that milestone. I play the game to my best interest, there is too much going on to worry about denying milestones. If it is there and I can use it, then I will try take it, but I wont play out of my way to deny milestones.
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As with any strategy, I still think it's pretty dependent on:

1) Game length.
2) What avenues other players pursue.

However, I probably agree that trainer is the "safe" route, especially for newer players that are going to need that $15 salary safety net.

I'll start another thread on the merits of a first turn Errand Boy, which I think is another strong opening!
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mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.

If nobody else gets a recruiting girl the first turn, you can even postpone the second recruiting girl for one round and can still be sure to get the 3 hires milestone. But still you can get the freezer and the drink marketing.


I want to deny the milestone to the person who grabs the first turn trainer though.

Well, if someone takes the trainer in the first turn, but hires a recruiting girl in the second (i.e. is not training anyone and not receiving the milestone), I would not care about this player much anyway.
 
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
As with any strategy, I still think it's pretty dependent on:

1) Game length.
2) What avenues other players pursue.

However, I probably agree that trainer is the "safe" route, especially for newer players that are going to need that $15 salary safety net.

I'll start another thread on the merits of a first turn Errand Boy, which I think is another strong opening!


that seems very strong to me as well. You can then proceed to advertise and be a pain in the ass by flooding the board with varieties of drinks or all the same depending on how the board looks.
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ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I have to assume going for 3 hires by turn 2 is a nice counter to this. (to make sure the person with the trainer doesn't try to get the hire 3 in one turn goal.)

Something like.

turn 1: recruiting Girl

turn 2: Waitress, Recruiting Girl or Errand Boy, Recruiting Girl

turn 3: get 2 free management trainee's in addition to however you want to flesh out your strategy. I recommend at least 1 trainer.

If nobody else gets a recruiting girl the first turn, you can even postpone the second recruiting girl for one round and can still be sure to get the 3 hires milestone. But still you can get the freezer and the drink marketing.


I want to deny the milestone to the person who grabs the first turn trainer though.

Well, if someone takes the trainer in the first turn, but hires a recruiting girl in the second (i.e. is not training anyone and not receiving the milestone), I would not care about this player much anyway.


I wouldn't care either, but that isn't what the person is doing.

They are getting a manager and training to level 2. The next turn they get the Hire x 2.
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Mabuchi wrote:
rayffis wrote:
I have played four 4-5p games thus far. In my opinion if there is a place at the start where you have one static income source (with one marketing milestone 15$ in a turn) that's better option than 1st turn trainer.
This way you get your engine going AND you get the money for the salaries. You can also snatch the 20$ salary milestone most of the time if you want it.

My start in the most recent game was Recruiting girl -> Marketing trainee, Errand boy (freezer, +1 drink from suppliers, +5$ per drink sold and eternal marketing).
If multiple guys are going for 1st turn trainer (slow start with milestones) you can do Recruiting girl -> Recruiting girl, Marketing trainee/errand boy -> Trainer + 2 other picks depending on the situation + 2 extra management trainees from the milestone.


That is fine in theory, but I have seen eternal marketing bite people in the ass big time. Trainer is the safe move that gives no one else the opportunity to use you. My first win was accomplished while only obtaining 3 milestones, and none of them were boosting sales of items.


It's true that eternal marketing has its drawbacks and you don't really need that +5$ bonus for megaturns (it has it's uses at the starting period of the game). It can come in handy if there is aggressive discounting and the endgame gets tough. When prices get lowered to 0$ you will still get the money from the bonus.
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mfl134 wrote:
chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
As with any strategy, I still think it's pretty dependent on:

1) Game length.
2) What avenues other players pursue.

However, I probably agree that trainer is the "safe" route, especially for newer players that are going to need that $15 salary safety net.

I'll start another thread on the merits of a first turn Errand Boy, which I think is another strong opening!


that seems very strong to me as well. You can then proceed to advertise and be a pain in the ass by flooding the board with varieties of drinks or all the same depending on how the board looks.


I think that Errand Boy is more map dependent than Trainer, but I could be wrong too.
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mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
[...]
Well, if someone takes the trainer in the first turn, but hires a recruiting girl in the second (i.e. is not training anyone and not receiving the milestone), I would not care about this player much anyway.


I wouldn't care either, but that isn't what the person is doing.

They are getting a manager and training to level 2. The next turn they get the Hire x 2.

True, I was not thinking about the next level hiring cards, since I think they are not that good. But I have never considered opening with them.
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ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
[...]
Well, if someone takes the trainer in the first turn, but hires a recruiting girl in the second (i.e. is not training anyone and not receiving the milestone), I would not care about this player much anyway.


I wouldn't care either, but that isn't what the person is doing.

They are getting a manager and training to level 2. The next turn they get the Hire x 2.

True, I was not thinking about the next level hiring cards, since I think they are not that good. But I have never considered opening with them.

I think an overall strong opening is:

Turn 1) Hire Trainer
Turn 2) Hire Management Trainee, train to Junior VP. (First to train bonus)
Turn 3) Hire X, train Junior VP to Recruiting Manager.
Turn 4) Hire 3X, train X (First to to 3X hire bonus).

Of course, if someone opens with a Recruiting Girl, you don't bother training to a Recruiting Manager probably, but getting both of those bonuses in 4 turns is pretty darn viable in many games.
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
[...]
Well, if someone takes the trainer in the first turn, but hires a recruiting girl in the second (i.e. is not training anyone and not receiving the milestone), I would not care about this player much anyway.


I wouldn't care either, but that isn't what the person is doing.

They are getting a manager and training to level 2. The next turn they get the Hire x 2.

True, I was not thinking about the next level hiring cards, since I think they are not that good. But I have never considered opening with them.

I think an overall strong opening is:

Turn 1) Hire Trainer
Turn 2) Hire Management Trainee, train to Junior VP. (First to train bonus)
Turn 3) Hire X, train Junior VP to Recruiting Manager.
Turn 4) Hire 3X, train X (First to to 3X hire bonus).

Of course, if someone opens with a Recruiting Girl, you don't bother training to a Recruiting Manager probably, but getting both of those bonuses in 4 turns is pretty darn viable in many games.


If someone does that, I will simply train to a Coach, then next turn hire and train to a Recruiting Manager, then next turn hire and train to another coach or, go down a food line and start making some cash. You can certainly mooch off of other peoples hard work at marketing. Of course this is all speculative on what the map looks like.
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Mabuchi wrote:

In my last game I rushed to the Guru asap, and then hired and trained direct to the radio marketing. I was the first one to do that and it was popping two burgers onto 7 houses for most of the game. First to advertise burgers, first to 100, first to 20, first errand boy, first to cook a burger, and first to train. 555 dollars out of a possible 1050 + end turn income.


It seems your opponents must have been completely asleep at the wheel if you managed to get all those milestones while simultaneously rushing for the Guru. You got Errand Boy AND +5 Burgers AND you were the first to $20? What the heck were they doing?

Trainer is a fine first hire, as is following it up by going straight for the Guru IF there aren't several players going for an early income stream. I've found that game length depends far less on money in reserve than it does on how many people are going for short vs long game strategies. If you've got half the table cranking up their economy early then the Guru is going to have a hard time bringing his longer game strategy to fruition.
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