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Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan» Forums » Rules

Subject: Must play a card every turn a siege is ongoing? rss

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Huibin Zhou
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The rules says that a combat must be declared when a siege is ongoing. So can a besieger:
-On the besieger's turn, if he does not want to, play no cards for the siege combat and allow the siege to continue.
Also,
-If he can't play any cards or does not want to. It is a tie at 0 and the defender wins due to a tie as defenders wins ties?

I cant' come to a consensus either way after reading the rules a few times. Thank you for any help cheers.
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Nick Wade
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We just played that the besieger can simply sit there and do nothing, and the siege continues. This is because the rules say the attacker can deploy as many blocks as he wishes, which could be zero.
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Benji
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Hattusilis_III wrote:
We just played that the besieger can simply sit there and do nothing, and the siege continues. This is because the rules say the attacker can deploy as many blocks as he wishes, which could be zero.


correct. Sitting outside and doing nothing is basically what is a siege. Siege combat is when you actually commit blocks to an attack. So the siege continues as long as you are outside the castle, but that doesn't mean that siege combat occurs.
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Chris in Kansai
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akaisamurai001 wrote:
The rules says that a combat must be declared when a siege is ongoing. So can a besieger:
-On the besieger's turn, if he does not want to, play no cards for the siege combat and allow the siege to continue.
Also,
-If he can't play any cards or does not want to. It is a tie at 0 and the defender wins due to a tie as defenders wins ties?

I cant' come to a consensus either way after reading the rules a few times. Thank you for any help cheers.


The rules say:

Follow this procedure for each Siege
Combat:
A. The attacker deploys (8.2.3) as many blocks as he wishes.

8.2.3 says:

8.2.3 Deployment Procedure
The active player plays a card face up, and selects a block from
among his undeployed forces whose mon matches the card.


Seems like you have to play a card and a block to fulfill the requirement of 8.2.3. - if you deploy no blocks you are not doing so.

Edit - reading Combat General Rule 8.1 also seems to make it clear that not resolving combat in a location containing troops of both sides is not an option.
 
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Chrysm wrote:
akaisamurai001 wrote:
The rules says that a combat must be declared when a siege is ongoing. So can a besieger:
-On the besieger's turn, if he does not want to, play no cards for the siege combat and allow the siege to continue.
Also,
-If he can't play any cards or does not want to. It is a tie at 0 and the defender wins due to a tie as defenders wins ties?

I cant' come to a consensus either way after reading the rules a few times. Thank you for any help cheers.


The rules say:

Follow this procedure for each Siege
Combat:
A. The attacker deploys (8.2.3) as many blocks as he wishes.

8.2.3 says:

8.2.3 Deployment Procedure
The active player plays a card face up, and selects a block from
among his undeployed forces whose mon matches the card.


Seems like you have to play a card and a block to fulfill the requirement of 8.2.3. - if you deploy no blocks you are not doing so.

Edit - reading Combat General Rule 8.1 also seems to make it clear that not resolving combat in a location containing troops of both sides is not an option.


8.1 and following talk about "battles", the latter being defined as situations "when neither force is inside a castle" (see 8.2.1), so it's different from a siege battle, it doesn't apply to siege combat.

8.9.4 is about siege combat and mentions that there is "no limit on the number of blocks the attacking player may deploy" - hence zero is perfetly fine.
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Chris in Kansai
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Benji68 wrote:

8.1 and following talk about "battles", the latter being defined as situations "when neither force is inside a castle" (see 8.2.1), so it's different from a siege battle, it doesn't apply to siege combat.

8.9.4 is about siege combat and mentions that there is "no limit on the number of blocks the attacking player may deploy" - hence zero is perfetly fine.


Rule 8.1

"8.1 General Rule
Combat occurs after all movement. Combat must be declared in
every location on the board where opposing pieces appear together.
These declarations are made one at a time by the phasing player, with
combat resolved immediately following each declaration. Combat
will be a battle or a siege
, the latter if either of the forces is inside a castle.
After combat is resolved in a location, a new location is selected, until all such locations are resolved."
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Huibin Zhou
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My group has the same issue with the rules and interpretation for each can be different but seriously thanks all for the help, it is much appreciated.
 
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Chrysm wrote:


Rule 8.1

"8.1 General Rule
Combat occurs after all movement. Combat must be declared in
every location on the board where opposing pieces appear together.
These declarations are made one at a time by the phasing player, with
combat resolved immediately following each declaration. Combat
will be a battle or a siege
, the latter if either of the forces is inside a castle.
After combat is resolved in a location, a new location is selected, until all such locations are resolved."


Exactly, and then there comes 8.2.1.:

"Combat is resolved as a battle if neither force is inside a castle."

So battles are not the same as sieges, and sieges are explained in 8.9.

In effect, in a siege situation, you have to ask if the defender stays inside the castle during the besieging players turn. If he does, it becomes a siege (and the attacker may deploy as many blocks as he wishes, including zero). If the defender leaves the castle, a normal battle will have to take place.

But play as you like.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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To me, it's clear that you can just play no cards.
To reinforce this just think about what would happen if you have to play a card but have none matching one of your blocks.
However, the rules could have easily been made cristal clear about this.

On a side note, it is important to declare the combat as the defender has the choice to stay inside the walls or fight an open battle. Even if in most (if not all) cases he will chose to stay inside.
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David Pereira
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Hattusilis_III wrote:
We just played that the besieger can simply sit there and do nothing, and the siege continues. This is because the rules say the attacker can deploy as many blocks as he wishes, which could be zero.


Correct. The castles remain besieged but the attacker it's not forced to attack. No one would pass by an army standing outside a castle besieging it even if they are not attcking it.

Any force coming to the aid will fight in the open and the forces inside the castle may come Out to help them.
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Matt Calkins
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A besieging attacker does not have to play any cards. If a siege is not prosecuted, the situation simply remains as it is until the next turn.
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Huibin Zhou
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I was thinking the exact same thing when I opened the rulebook again. And great point which I missed on it being declared a combat so the defender can fight outside the castle.

Thanks again all! This makes me more confident about explaining the wording to the players. Cheers and here's to a great wargame.
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Chris in Kansai
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Just found this file too, Sekigahara FAQ which does make it clear.

An extra sentence in the rulebook would take away an ambiguity though.
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Huibin Zhou
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Thanks a bundle Kansai Chris, that is a great link! It is confirmed from the FAQ that no cards need to be played and the siege can be maintained. Thumbs up, a handshake and arigatou gozaimasu.
 
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Benji
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You guys do know that Matt Calkins (just above you) is the author of the game, right? Even if you didn't believe us, no further search for a FAQ was necessary in this case.
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Huibin Zhou
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No, I did not know that but there is no need to put down someone's else's hard work. In any case, the FAQ he gave can help others look into the FAQ instead of having to ask the same questions on it on the forum again. I do thank you for your help on the question but still there is no need to be antagonistic to others just because he disagreed with you initially.
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Chris in Kansai
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Benji68 wrote:
You guys do know that Matt Calkins (just above you) is the author of the game, right? Even if you didn't believe us, no further search for a FAQ was necessary in this case.


No, unfortunately I don't have the names of the designers of all the games I own committed to memory, but I would like to thank him for posting to clear things up.

As for you, feel free to keep that FAQ link to hand so that in future you'll have a useful reference to back up your opinions.
 
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Chrysm wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
You guys do know that Matt Calkins (just above you) is the author of the game, right? Even if you didn't believe us, no further search for a FAQ was necessary in this case.


No, unfortunately I don't have the names of the designers of all the games I own committed to memory, but I would like to thank him for posting to clear things up.

As for you, feel free to keep that FAQ link to hand so that in future you'll have a useful reference to back up your opinions.


It's not about opinions, it's about rules. I prefer those to FAQs whenever possible.

But no hard feelings. There are much worse things in life than a rules dispute (see microbadge)
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