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Subject: What's wrong with the "Engine damage" rule?!?! rss

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Fred Methot
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Hi. Played my first few games last weekend and really really enjoyed it!

There is one rule though that I can't understand, it's when you roll a 20 in 5th gear or a 30 in 6th gear. I'm fine with the fact that the pilot who made that roll must roll the black die to see if he pushed his engine too far, but why exactly would all the pilots around the track (in 5th and 6th gear) would do the same?

Check the rulebook, #7... I can't find a logical reasoning behind this... one car pushes his engine too far yet all the cars in 5th and 6th gear must check for engine damage?

Unless someone has a very good explanation for this, we'll houserule it ASAP...

Thanks!
 
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Matt Davis
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I think the reasoning is that anytime you're in fifth or sixth gear, you're pushing your engine to the limit. So they wanted to randomize how often you check to see if you've done any damage. It's not supposed to be thematic, just that every so often you have to make a check to see if you get unlucky.
 
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Chaddyboy
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coolpapa wrote:
I think the reasoning is that anytime you're in fifth or sixth gear, you're pushing your engine to the limit. So they wanted to randomize how often you check to see if you've done any damage. It's not supposed to be thematic, just that every so often you have to make a check to see if you get unlucky.


Yup, if you're in 5th of 6th, you're pushing your engine. The rules as written just make it so that there are somewhat random checks as to whether your engine is taking damage or not. If you only checked for engine damage on your own rolls, engine damage wouldn't even be a threat!
 
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Tony Wai-kit FUNG
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Yep, it's a random check for testing your engine after being pushed too much.
If the check applies only to the current pilot, it's just too rare to happen, and became almost risk-free.
Making it applying to all pilots helps to raise it to a right amount of chance.
 
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Throknor
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
coolpapa wrote:
I think the reasoning is that anytime you're in fifth or sixth gear, you're pushing your engine to the limit. So they wanted to randomize how often you check to see if you've done any damage. It's not supposed to be thematic, just that every so often you have to make a check to see if you get unlucky.


Yup, if you're in 5th of 6th, you're pushing your engine. The rules as written just make it so that there are somewhat random checks as to whether your engine is taking damage or not. If you only checked for engine damage on your own rolls, engine damage wouldn't even be a threat!


I wouldn't agree with that. We had a monthly series going this year at GASP*, and someone completely destroyed an engine in at least one third** of the races. Not a dire threat, but it does happen. And we played where only the driver had to roll - having everyone roll has two negatives. First, it interrupts the flow, slowing the game down. Second, it makes everyone have to calculate engine points based on how hard others will play, when they may never have played together before.

* Gaming Association of Southwestern Pennsylvania, www.gaspgamer.com

** It's always fun watching people try to coast to the pits, getting in everyone's way.
 
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Pablo Klinkisch
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Throknor wrote:

Second, it makes everyone have to calculate engine points based on how hard others will play, when they may never have played together before.


I have to disagree in this one: in each Formula dé track there is (like in real F1) an "ideal line", and each player will try to adjust himself to it. It's this line that should dictate your motor choices: even if you have a really slow-driving group, everyone will play 5th or 6th in Interlagos, whereas even the most suicidal players would (almost) never use 6th in Monaco.
The only factor besides the circuit itself you should look at is the number of players: more players -> more tests.
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Barry Figgins
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I like to play that only the driver who rolled a 20 or 30 has to roll, but the risk of engine damage is much greater - damage on 1-10, rather than 1-4. I haven't tried to determine the probabilities (which depend on how many 20s or 30s are rolled during an average game on an average course) but it seems to give about the same risk and result.
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Throknor
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Sancherib wrote:
Throknor wrote:

Second, it makes everyone have to calculate engine points based on how hard others will play, when they may never have played together before.


I have to disagree in this one: in each Formula dé track there is (like in real F1) an "ideal line", and each player will try to adjust himself to it. It's this line that should dictate your motor choices: even if you have a really slow-driving group, everyone will play 5th or 6th in Interlagos, whereas even the most suicidal players would (almost) never use 6th in Monaco.
The only factor besides the circuit itself you should look at is the number of players: more players -> more tests.


Well, that's the issue isn't it? If there are two likely 5th gear places on a track running three laps then it's 2 x 3 x (2/20) x (4/20) = .125, and I can just plan my downshift needs and add one if I think I'm on a bad rolling streak. Throw in 10 total cars and suddenly one point for blown engine rolls is virtually guaranteed, and two looks like a good idea. Throw in another long stretch and you're at two points being necessary, just for probable engine rolls you'll hit. {10 x 3 x 3 x (2/20) x (4/20) = 1.8}

Regardless, it feels gimmicky, unrealistic, and something that would just slow the game down. It's one thing to be knocked out by cars I'm competing with hitting me. It's another to be on the other side of the board in third gear and have my engine blown by three bad rolls.
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Chaddyboy
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Quote:
It's another to be on the other side of the board in third gear and have my engine blown by three bad rolls.


You wouldn't be rolling for engine damage if you were in third gear...
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Throknor
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
Quote:
It's another to be on the other side of the board in third gear and have my engine blown by three bad rolls.


You wouldn't be rolling for engine damage if you were in third gear...


Fair enough; but it would still be annoying to be eliminated after my first roll in 5th was 11 and engine rolls from four other people ruin my engine. And yes, a similar occurrence happens in corners and you need to plan your body (and suspension) for the number of corners and players. But I can (to a degree) control where I am in a corner and the likelihood I'd need to roll.

To each his own, of course. If a group was playing by the strict rules I wouldn't jump out for it; I just prefer the variant.
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Jerald Sharp
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Sancherib wrote:
Throknor wrote:

Second, it makes everyone have to calculate engine points based on how hard others will play, when they may never have played together before.


I have to disagree in this one: in each Formula dé track there is (like in real F1) an "ideal line", and each player will try to adjust himself to it. It's this line that should dictate your motor choices: even if you have a really slow-driving group, everyone will play 5th or 6th in Interlagos, whereas even the most suicidal players would (almost) never use 6th in Monaco.
The only factor besides the circuit itself you should look at is the number of players: more players -> more tests.


True. My league of five players/two cars each plays with the rules as written. I seem to remember one event on the Interlagos track where we had three of the ten cars drop out due to engine failure. One of those, my Menardi #2, suffered two quick adverse engine check results on the second lap. I initiated the first, the other was in response to another driver rolling a twenty or thirty, etc. On subsequent races on that track, I've made numerous engine checks. But, the two engine boxes that I carried on both of my cars provided enough safety to reach the finish line.
 
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Curt Collins
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Hi Mike, just to clarify a couple of those rules that we play at GASP:

The engine damage houserule we use is that if you roll a 19-20, or a 29-30, then the driver that rolled it checks for engine damage. The biggest issue I have with the rule as is, is that when playing with 5 driver your chance of engine damage is half that of when playing with 10 drivers because there are so many more times when the high gears are rolled. So instead, we increase the individual chances of hurting your engine.

We also use the redline rule where you can spend the engine to move extra spaces. This uses up even more engine, so we do have engine failures fairly frequently.

We also allow cars with "blown" engines to coast and try to get back to the line, or the pits. It doesn't make sense that a car heading to the finish that blows his engine 200 feet from at 200 MPH can't coast the final distance. The rule is you gear down one each turn.

The corner issue he is talking about is the body damage rules modifications we use. We don't roll for being next to each other on a straightaway, but only in corners where the number we roll for body damage is equal to the corner number or lower. This also has the effect of leaving more debris in the corners which requires you to use a bit of suspension.

We have been working on the rules for 4 or 5 years now, and I think we are just about where we want to be. The engine rule though, the likelyhood of engine damage affected so much by how many people were playing and that really gets under my skin.
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Adam Douglas
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I like the "coasting" houserule that Spleen has in use... so much I'm going to adopt the rule for my group. laugh I might make it a bit more severe by requiring the drive to gear down 2 gears per turn after the engine has blown. No further damage would be taken to the engine or tyres for these double down shifts, as the engine is already dead.

The reasoning behind this is after the engine is gone... it's gone. The car would stop pretty quickly in such and event.

Wile
 
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