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Subject: This seems to be a new low, even for The Donald rss

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Pontifex Maximus
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The Washington Post ran The Donald's comments on the Paris terrorist attack. Moronic as usual claiming that somehow having the entire audience at concerts armed is a good thing. (Extra moronic considering France has a violent murder rate about 1/4 ours) But at the end there was this little bon mot

"Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11...



So basically The Donald is parading the relatives of the slain, to whip up his racist/nativist followers. This really harkens back to the days of the folks in the White Sheets. Or the America First folks back in World War II. Nothing really shows us the vile human being under the facade quite like this
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Boaty McBoatface
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Well it could be worse, he has no chance now.
 
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J
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I figured the debate might hurt him a bit, but that doesn't seem to have happened:

Quote:
According to the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos presidential poll, Trump has leapt some 17 percentage points among likely Republican voters since Nov. 6, when he was essentially tied with Ben Carson at about 25 percent. Trump now captures 42 percent of those voters while Carson has fallen off slightly.

Among all Republicans - not simply likely primary voters -Trump holds a substantial edge over Carson, at 34 percent to about 20 percent, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll.

that's just one poll though.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
I figured the debate might hurt him a bit, but that doesn't seem to have happened:

Quote:
According to the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos presidential poll, Trump has leapt some 17 percentage points among likely Republican voters since Nov. 6, when he was essentially tied with Ben Carson at about 25 percent. Trump now captures 42 percent of those voters while Carson has fallen off slightly.

Among all Republicans - not simply likely primary voters -Trump holds a substantial edge over Carson, at 34 percent to about 20 percent, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll.

that's just one poll though.
That is too sad for words.

It is almost as if "play the racist card to beat the black man" card was played, "look at how bigoted I am". I hope this is not the case, but it doers rather look like it.
 
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Jon Badolato
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jmilum wrote:
I figured the debate might hurt him a bit, but that doesn't seem to have happened:

Quote:
According to the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos presidential poll, Trump has leapt some 17 percentage points among likely Republican voters since Nov. 6, when he was essentially tied with Ben Carson at about 25 percent. Trump now captures 42 percent of those voters while Carson has fallen off slightly.

Among all Republicans - not simply likely primary voters -Trump holds a substantial edge over Carson, at 34 percent to about 20 percent, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll.

that's just one poll though.


If true, this would simply show how much nuttier the Republican base has become over the last thirty years or so.
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Pontifex Maximus
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jonb wrote:
jmilum wrote:
I figured the debate might hurt him a bit, but that doesn't seem to have happened:

Quote:
According to the five-day rolling Reuters/Ipsos presidential poll, Trump has leapt some 17 percentage points among likely Republican voters since Nov. 6, when he was essentially tied with Ben Carson at about 25 percent. Trump now captures 42 percent of those voters while Carson has fallen off slightly.

Among all Republicans - not simply likely primary voters -Trump holds a substantial edge over Carson, at 34 percent to about 20 percent, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll.

that's just one poll though.


If true, this would simply show how much nuttier the Republican base has become over the last thirty years or so.


The base has suffered some nasty shocks, like the same sex marriage ruling, in recent times. This coupled with the realization of the changing demographics of the county seems to be filling them with fear. And fearful people are a dangerous commodity.
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jeremy cobert
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Kumitedad wrote:
This really harkens back to the days of the folks in the White Sheets.


Except The Donald is running as Republican, those were democRats.

Kumitedad wrote:
Or the America First folks back in World War II.


Again, Intern camps and such, another democRat idea.

Kumitedad wrote:
Nothing really shows us the vile human being under the facade quite like this


Well, the democRats have done a fairly good job at hiding their past racism.

Are we still talking about Trump ?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
This really harkens back to the days of the folks in the White Sheets.


Except The Donald is running as Republican, those were democRats.

Kumitedad wrote:
Or the America First folks back in World War II.


Again, Intern camps and such, another democRat idea.

Kumitedad wrote:
Nothing really shows us the vile human being under the facade quite like this


Well, the democRats have done a fairly good job at hiding their past racism.

Are we still talking about Trump ?
Maybe that is the point he is making, the way that Trump seems to be trying to appeal to people who should not be voting for the real Republican party. That it is tragic that someone like Trump (and his kind) have hijacked what was once the party of equality and rights.
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About SYRIAN refugees:

"I don't want any of them here," said Kendall Johns, 43, a Trump supporter at the rally who lives in Beaumont and works at an oil refinery. "I mean, send them to Mexico. Send them to Central America. Send them to South America. I don't want them here."

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Jorge Montero
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I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
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Yes the racist element in the South used to vote Democrat, but with the civil rights act, the Democratic Party decided that it didn't make sense to land to racists anymore. Those same racists, or now their children and grandchildren, quickly started voting Republican, and Republican leadership has been pandering to racists, in one form of another, since.

It would be nice if Republican candidates stood against Racism, leaving those guys no place to go, but votes are too important I guess.
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David desJardins
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Kumitedad wrote:
"Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional."


Do you think he's wrong that we're not doing enough to keep out illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes? I would agree with him about that.

The story doesn't say if the four killings were one-off acts, or committed by serial offenders.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional."


Do you think he's wrong that we're not doing enough to keep out illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes? I would agree with him about that.

The story doesn't say if the four killings were one-off acts, or committed by serial offenders.
Err, if they are already in the country you have already failed to keep them out.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
Err, if they are already in the country you have already failed to keep them out.


So you're agreeing with me and with Trump?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Err, if they are already in the country you have already failed to keep them out.


So you're agreeing with me and with Trump?
Errr no, you cannot keep people out for crimes they will commit once they are here.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Errr no, you cannot keep people out for crimes they will commit once they are here.


The issue is people who have a criminal history who are being allowed to enter the US and/or remain here. Most criminals commit many crimes, not just a single one. It's what you do after you apprehend them and identify them, that matters.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Errr no, you cannot keep people out for crimes they will commit once they are here.


The issue is people who have a criminal history who are being allowed to enter the US and/or remain here. Most criminals commit many crimes, not just a single one. It's what you do after you apprehend them and identify them, that matters.
How are they allowed to enter or remain there is they are illegals? If they have permission to say there they are not illegal immigrants.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
How are they allowed to enter or remain there is they are illegals? If they have permission to say there they are not illegal immigrants.


For example, an illegal immigrant in San Francisco who had committed many serious crimes and had been deported from the US many times, was imprisoned in San Francisco, and then released back into the community rather than being held or deported by the federal government, because the city of San Francisco has a policy of not considering the immigration status of prisoners, or cooperating with the US Department of Homeland Security. This person then found a gun and killed a tourist here, apparently at random.

He did not have permission to remain, but he was able to enter the US illegally (many, many times) and he was allowed to remain here even after being apprehended. That's the kind of thing that Trump and others are concerned about. Such incidents have had a significant effect on public opinion in the US, because the "sanctuary" policy in question seems fairly indefensible, yet is widespread in "progressive" American cities.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional."


Do you think he's wrong that we're not doing enough to keep out illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes? I would agree with him about that.

The story doesn't say if the four killings were one-off acts, or committed by serial offenders.


I think we're not doing enough, but I also think it's blatantly playing on the emotions of the audience in order to stoke up anger against immigrants generally.
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she2 wrote:
I think we're not doing enough, but I also think it's blatantly playing on the emotions of the audience in order to stoke up anger against immigrants generally.


Doesn't virtually all campaigning seek to play on the emotions of the audience? When Obama tells a story about a child who grew up in the US and wants to join the army to serve the only country he knows, do you think he's appealing to the emotions of his audience? There's nothing wrong with appealing to emotions.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
How are they allowed to enter or remain there is they are illegals? If they have permission to say there they are not illegal immigrants.


For example, an illegal immigrant in San Francisco who had committed many serious crimes and had been deported from the US many times, was imprisoned in San Francisco, and then released back into the community rather than being held or deported by the federal government, because the city of San Francisco has a policy of not considering the immigration status of prisoners, or cooperating with the US Department of Homeland Security. This person then found a gun and killed a tourist here, apparently at random.

He did not have permission to remain, but he was able to enter the US illegally (many, many times) and he was allowed to remain here even after being apprehended. That's the kind of thing that Trump and others are concerned about. Such incidents have had a significant effect on public opinion in the US, because the "sanctuary" policy in question seems fairly indefensible, yet is widespread in "progressive" American cities.
Did you mean this case? http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/03/us/san-francisco-killing-s..., This is not one of the cases Trump raised. So maybe you would care to discus the cases he raised.

It may be worth noting that Clinton is making a thing about this case as well. The problem is this is not what Trump is talking about. For example one of his victims killer actually, fled the country and had to be extradited. I can find no evidence he ever left the country or was deported before the crime.
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
This is not one of the cases Trump raised. So maybe you would care to discus the cases he raised.


How do you know what cases Trump raised? As I said before, all that the Washington Post story cited here says is, "Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional." If you have some citations about who they are and what happened in those cases I would be happy to look at them.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
she2 wrote:
I think we're not doing enough, but I also think it's blatantly playing on the emotions of the audience in order to stoke up anger against immigrants generally.


Doesn't virtually all campaigning seek to play on the emotions of the audience? When Obama tells a story about a child who grew up in the US and wants to join the army to serve the only country he knows, do you think he's appealing to the emotions of his audience? There's nothing wrong with appealing to emotions.


There's nothing wrong with it if you abstract it as "appealing to emotions". Emotions run the gamut, don't they?
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David desJardins
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she2 wrote:
There's nothing wrong with it if you abstract it as "appealing to emotions". Emotions run the gamut, don't they?


OK, so your point is not that "appealing to emotions" is bad but that "stoke up anger against immigrants generally" is bad? I don't have any argument with that.

I do know that illegal immigrants, on average, commit less crime than US citizens who are similarly situated. I suppose it would be too much to hope for Trump to mention that, now and then.

You wouldn't have a problem with him focusing on the problem of crime committed by a small fraction of immigrants, and how we should do more about that, if you didn't see him as using it against "immigrants generally"?
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
This is not one of the cases Trump raised. So maybe you would care to discus the cases he raised.


How do you know what cases Trump raised? As I said before, all that the Washington Post story cited here says is, "Trump also invited relatives of four people killed by illegal immigrants onto the stage to share their stories, at one point comforting a woman who became emotional." If you have some citations about who they are and what happened in those cases I would be happy to look at them.


Actually since your defense is based on the details of the case, it is more incumbent upon you to provide said details. Otherwise you are asking folks to provide both sides of the argument. When you can do that we will be happy to see whether they support what you are trying to say. Otherwise it would seem you are relying on wishful thinking in explaining away his actions
 
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Kumitedad wrote:
Actually since your defense is based on the details of the case, it is more incumbent upon you to provide said details.


Shouldn't it be up to the person who writes, "So basically The Donald is parading the relatives of the slain, to whip up his racist/nativist followers," to provide the details to support that? The mere fact that he had four people who had relatives killed by immigrants and who told their stories, when we don't even know what those stories were, doesn't seem sufficient to support the conclusion in the OP.

I fully accept that it might be true. I just don't think you can tell that from the one line in the Washington Post.
 
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