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Subject: Will Pandemic Legacy take the No. 1 spot from Twilight Struggle rss

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Jay K
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I have been watching with interest, the rise of Star Wars: Imperial Assault, as it has climbed into the Top 10 boardgames with an overall average rating of 8.40. However, more recently it appears to have either been beset by people attempting to arrest its ascent or people have amended their scores to reflect a revised view of the game, as the overall average score has fallen from 8.48 to 8.40.

Pandemic Legacy has, in contrast, shot into the Top 100 and has been leapfrogging 5,10, 15 and even 20 games at a time. It does seem to have started to suffer from the Imperial Assault effect as the averagw score has dropped from 9.04 to 9.00. However, I think this could be the game to finally topple Twilight Struggle from its lofty pedestal.

Now I own Pandemic, Imperial Assault and Twilight Struggle and I love all of these games. However, for me the Euro games tend to gain higher average scores to their Ameritrash cousins and it is healthy to see titles like Blood Rage, Pandemic Legacy and Imperial Assault show that you can combine theme, some Euro mechanics and dice rolling (in IA) to produce an excellent game.
 
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Sean
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I think it will depend on how many people actually rate it. Very often you see a big disparity between the number of owners and the number of ratings. Pandemic has become quite a mainstream game and so the Legacy version got more publicity than it otherwise might have. It also seems to be one of those love it or hate it type of things.

Now let's really heat up this discussion and talk about the Twilight Struggle fanboys and their shill accounts rating this game a 1.
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Mathue Faulkner
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There are a couple threads with discussion on this topic already, and there are several more on tangential topics.
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Clive Jones

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Heliconia wrote:
Now let's really heat up this discussion and talk about the Twilight Struggle fanboys and their shill accounts rating this game a 1.

Are you serious?

If so, clearly Something Should Be Done (tm).

Conversely, I wonder how Twilight Struggle got to the #1 spot. I don't know of anybody who's ever played it, let alone recommended it to me. I've only once ever seen one solitary copy languishing in an FLGS. My charitable assumption had always been either that it was liked by a socially disjoint group of gamers, or was far more popular in the USA then Europe, or maybe both.
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Ian Blubaugh
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I can't speak to any shill accounts, but Twilight Struggle is #1 because it is widely (very, very widely) considered one of the finest games ever made. It's such an incredible blend of strategy and theme, and has a ridiculous amount of depth.

Easy to learn, but complex to master.
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Sean
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clivej wrote:
Heliconia wrote:
Now let's really heat up this discussion and talk about the Twilight Struggle fanboys and their shill accounts rating this game a 1.

Are you serious?

If so, clearly Something Should Be Done (tm).

Conversely, I wonder how Twilight Struggle got to the #1 spot. I don't know of anybody who's ever played it, let alone recommended it to me. I've only once ever seen one solitary copy languishing in an FLGS. My charitable assumption had always been either that it was liked by a socially disjoint group of gamers, or was far more popular in the USA then Europe, or maybe both.


The March Madness will be here before you know it. The A:NR guys take on the TS guys for the annual "who gives a sh**" trophy. You should join in the fun if you haven't seen it already.
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Clyde W
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clivej wrote:
Heliconia wrote:
Now let's really heat up this discussion and talk about the Twilight Struggle fanboys and their shill accounts rating this game a 1.

Are you serious?

If so, clearly Something Should Be Done (tm).

Conversely, I wonder how Twilight Struggle got to the #1 spot. I don't know of anybody who's ever played it, let alone recommended it to me. I've only once ever seen one solitary copy languishing in an FLGS. My charitable assumption had always been either that it was liked by a socially disjoint group of gamers, or was far more popular in the USA then Europe, or maybe both.
It's amazing. Pick it up as soon as possible. Far better than Pandemic.
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Clive Jones

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clydeiii wrote:
It's amazing. Pick it up as soon as possible. Far better than Pandemic.

Not going to happen.

Even if it really is the best game in the world, a two-player three-hour game isn't one I'd ever get to play.
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Clyde W
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clivej wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
It's amazing. Pick it up as soon as possible. Far better than Pandemic.

Not going to happen.

Even if it really is the best game in the world, a two-player three-hour game isn't one I'd ever get to play.
Coming to PC and iPad very soon, with AI on both, authored by Playdek (the Agricola and Lords of Waterdeep developer). Maybe then?
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Jason Paterson
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Heliconia wrote:
I think it will depend on how many people actually rate it. Very often you see a big disparity between the number of owners and the number of ratings.

This. However, it won't require as many ratings as you might think. If it can maintain something greater than an 8.5 (and it's holding at ~9.0 right now) and accumulate another 1000 ratings, that should be enough to outbalance the BGG averaging algorithm and topple Twilight Struggle. Every day seems to bring another 50-100 votes... so unless:

a) there's some other mechanism in the averaging algorithm that I don't understand

or

b) the average rating or number of ratings start dramatically dropping for some reason

...I wouldn't be surprised if it hit #1 in another month.
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Unless there's a huge backlash VERY soon, it's only a short matter of time before Pandemic hits number 1. If it can some how continue it's climb at the same speed it could be no. 1 in the first week of December.
 
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CARL SKUTSCH
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OlBlue wrote:
I can't speak to any shill accounts, but Twilight Struggle is #1 because it is widely (very, very widely) considered one of the finest games ever made. It's such an incredible blend of strategy and theme, and has a ridiculous amount of depth.

Easy to learn, but complex to master.

I own the game, I like the game, and I think it's a bit overrated. A good game, absolutely, just not really worthy of being #1.
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James Clarke
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I've shown here, a comparison of the current user ratings for Pandemic Legacy and Twilight Struggle.

Once you weed out all the shilling, I'd say they're pretty neck and neck.

 
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Adrian Rodriguez
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I think it would be interesting to see the ratings sorted by age. My thesis is that people new to hobby like myself are the ones rating this a 10.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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gamequack wrote:
I think it would be interesting to see the ratings sorted by age. My thesis is that people new to hobby like myself are the ones rating this a 10.

What's considered new?
 
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Geert Vinaskov
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Coming to you early 2016:

Pandemic Legacy: Season 1 VS Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization
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Clyde W
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Classic ratings inflation.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Highland Cow wrote:

I've shown here, a comparison of the current user ratings for Pandemic Legacy and Twilight Struggle.

Once you weed out all the shilling, I'd say they're pretty neck and neck.


When I compare the values at 8, 9, and 10 I see a vast difference. For TS: n(8) > n(9) > n(10) while for PL it is the reverse with n(10) > n(9) > n(8). Also, for PL, n(10) is more the twice n(8). This is mostly why the average rating for PL is 9.0 while that of TS is only 8.3.

If you normalized the bars so the total area for each game was the same then the differences would be even more noticeable.
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Ecosmith Ecosmith
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Whether it will or not I can't say, but in my opinion it shouldn't. Lol as the Dude said, that's just my opinion, man. I own and love both games, but I'd say that TS was a better game overall.

Pandemic Legacy does what it does wonderfully, but I'm not sure I even think it's a better Legacy game than Risk Legacy. I have only played PL once through with just my gf and I playing, whereas I've played three campaigns of RL with 5 players each time, so perhaps my opinion of PL will rise after I've played it through a few more times (and I certainly will, I think it's awesome). I don't get the impression that one has to be particularly good at Pandemic Legacy to enjoy it, which for me is actually a strength, but it makes the game a bit of a throwaway experience.

Twilight Struggle is a 'proper' game, if I can use a bit of an elitist term.

In the end, it's like comparing apples to oranges. I don't think it really matters if PL kicks TS off the top. Our enjoyment of them won't change.

Eco
 
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Jon Ben
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The placement of a game on the overall rating is pretty meaningless, but people do take note of it. The comparison to March madness is very apt since sportscasters are notorious for talking about completely irrelevant stats as if they mattered (so many wins in a row, never lost the first away game of the season, blah blah blah).

What I find interesting is the dominance of 'sequel' games in the ratings and whether that will spark some controversy over how games are categorized on the site. Pandemic Legacy, Star Wars: IA, New Through the Ages and their ilk are rated much higher than they would otherwise be if they were standalone releases with no lineage. People know without playing that if they hated the predecessor they should stay away, this leads to selection bias and inflated ratings.

For example, do you think that PL: Season 2, if it's released, will have it's own entry? Probably it will. Its ratings will be even more biased. In a lot of cases this doesn't matter because these games lack the raw number of fans needed to ascend the top 100, but Pandemic is uniquely situated to have thousands of rankings with only it's hardcore fan base. That could mean a future where Pandemic Legacy seasons 1 through 10 fight for the first 10 spots
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Peter Thur
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JonBen wrote:
That could mean a future where Pandemic Legacy seasons 1 through 10 fight for the first 10 spots


Ah, the series will lose it's momentum when the characters become married and have children. And the dispatcher will return from the dead in series 7, explaining series 4-6 were just a dream/timetravel/alternate reality thing....
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Adrian Rodriguez
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Tomcat1304 wrote:
JonBen wrote:
That could mean a future where Pandemic Legacy seasons 1 through 10 fight for the first 10 spots


Ah, the series will lose it's momentum when the characters become married and have children. And the dispatcher will return from the dead in series 7, explaining series 4-6 were just a dream/timetravel/alternate reality thing....


Awesome!
 
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