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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Variants

Subject: Do some dungeon levels need to be "fixed"? rss

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Richard C
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There are a couple of levels that I'm learning should almost never be attempted. The Hideout (SoB) and The Secret Garden (ToI) spring to mind (personally, I can't stand The Thieves Den (54) but I don't know if it belongs in a "worst dungeon levels" list like the other two).
Given this, I wonder if some levels should be "fixed" with house rules (they just waste time and ruin dungeons, otherwise).


The Hideout (60)
1) Changing it so that you roll at the start of your turn would be an improvement (though probably not a significant enough one).
2) You could improve the chance of escape (PE would strand only half your team on average, ensuring the level was still a challenge).


The Secret Garden (42)
1) You could reduce the damage for entering the hedge to 1.
2) Or roll to reduce its damage as if it were a trap (surges sounds about right).
3) Or remove the line stating that entering the hedge ends the figure's activation.
Combining 2 and 3 would provide the heroes with some interesting risk/reward choices to make.


Does anyone else do stuff like this? Has anyone found that a level plays much better if you do X?
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Jim Ant
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Wiser heads than mine have declared The Hideout #60 to be very bad for the heroes. I haven't played it, but is it really *that* bad? I could see Orange's fix of rolling 50/50 (PE) instead of surge to be a good solution.

Are there examples of play in PBF?

Even if unchanged, what is the biggest problem here? Is it that the OL will gain extra time and thus extra threat and cards to play while the heroes are spinning their wheels at the beginning?

Since so many dungeon levels in AC are straight-up combat-oriented, you might think the heroes would enjoy a change of pace, even if it made for a very difficult battle. Obviously you wouldn't want to see this one as the first level of any dungeon!

How about this change? If you draw this dungeon, it must always become Level 3 of whatever dungeon you're currently playing?
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Patrick G.
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Why does every level have to be balanced? Isn't the whole point of variety getting some easy and some hard?
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Richard C
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corkysru wrote:
Why does every level have to be balanced? Isn't the whole point of variety getting some easy and some hard?

I absolutely agree that some levels should be harder than others. But if a level is so hard that it just doesn't get attempted it's a waste of time for both sides - the OVERLORD isn't going to get any kills if the Heroes just see it and flee.
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Richard C
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JimZam wrote:
Even if unchanged, what is the biggest problem here? Is it that the OL will gain extra time and thus extra threat and cards to play while the heroes are spinning their wheels at the beginning?

Since so many dungeon levels in AC are straight-up combat-oriented, you might think the heroes would enjoy a change of pace, even if it made for a very difficult battle. Obviously you wouldn't want to see this one as the first level of any dungeon!

The Hideout is difficult because the OVERLORD can hide monsters out of line of sight, then hit-and-run the heroes locked in the cage. The heroes are likely to escape only in dribs and drabs, which gets them away from the glyph, preventing any retreat. They're alone, surrounded by monsters, have limited opportunities to thin out their attackers and can't retreat. Ouch.

The level boss has 8 extra wounds per campaign level - that's standard for Sea of Blood bosses and is tough but fair.
He also has 2 extra armour per campaign level. That's very good.
He also has Fear 2. So his armour is significantly increased and he's depleting your surges as well. That's excellent.
And he's a Master Naga so has Command and Sorcery, so he and his buddies will be doing a lot of damage while you're trying to kill him.

I'd never suggest neutering him - he's a badass boss and beating him is an achievement. But changing the cage rules and getting the heroes actually into play and making choices and progressing sooner would, in my opinion, make the level more fun.

JimZam wrote:
How about this change? If you draw this dungeon, it must always become Level 3 of whatever dungeon you're currently playing?

I like the idea that more difficult dungeons come later, but there are a couple of considerations:
1) Some levels that are very difficult for one team will be a walk in the park to others (I may be wrong, but the levels I mention above seem to be very difficult, regardless of who attempts them).
2) Most OVERLORDs are going to be making the lower levels more difficult, anyway - through powers in play and the cards they draw (the more you draw the more chance you'll draw something useful).
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Patrick G.
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Col_Orange_1 wrote:
corkysru wrote:
Why does every level have to be balanced? Isn't the whole point of variety getting some easy and some hard?

I absolutely agree that some levels should be harder than others. But if a level is so hard that it just doesn't get attempted it's a waste of time for both sides - the OVERLORD isn't going to get any kills if the Heroes just see it and flee.

I have never fled from a level. In either RtL or SoB.
 
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Richard C
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You do all 3(+) levels of every dungeon? Even at the start of a campaign? I would have thought you'd give the OVERLORD a heck of a lot of CT that way (so much that I would have thought it'd be impossible to recover, if I'm honest). Well done if that's not the case.
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Patrick G.
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Col_Orange_1 wrote:
You do all 3(+) levels of every dungeon? Even at the start of a campaign? I would have thought you'd give the OVERLORD a heck of a lot of CT that way (so much that I would have thought it'd be impossible to recover, if I'm honest). Well done if that's not the case.

I tend to lead the group in a very cautious route. Rarely does the OL come out ahead of us for an entire dungeon. Sometimes we get close but the heroes always seem to come out ahead in the CT. Plus we get money and treasure.
 
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