Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Nexus Ops» Forums » Rules

Subject: Playing the "Frenzy" Energize card rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We recently played Nexus Ops for the first time and had a discussion how the "Frenzy" Energize card should be played.

The wording states (going from memory) - "Units have double attacks for this battle."

We thought this could be played a few ways:

- ALL units (attacker and defender) get double attacks. This doesn’t seem to give the attacker much advantage, unless most of his units are attacking first in the attack sequence.

- Only the attacker gets the double attacks.

- Regardless of who gets the attacks, does the player roll double the amount of dice? Or should you roll your normal attack first, then remove any units that were destroyed (for simultaneous attacks), and then roll again.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Chad
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pekin2121 wrote:
We recently played Nexus Ops for the first time and had a discussion how the "Frenzy" Energize card should be played.

The wording states (going from memory) - "Units have double attacks for this battle."

We thought this could be played a few ways:

- ALL units (attacker and defender) get double attacks. This doesn’t seem to give the attacker much advantage, unless most of his units are attacking first in the attack sequence.

Note that the attacker doesn't have to necessarily be the one to play this card. If the defender wants to drive the attacker away more easily, he can with this card. Or if the attacker is merely trying to claim a certain objective requiring him to kill a certain unit on the other team, he may play it to give him more options to do so Many uses for the card

Quote:
- Regardless of who gets the attacks, does the player roll double the amount of dice? Or should you roll your normal attack first, then remove any units that were destroyed (for simultaneous attacks), and then roll again.

When rolling for attacks, you just double the amount of dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JeremiahClayton wrote:
I'd roll the attacks separately because of the Lava Leaper's activated ability in battle.

A situation could exist where if the Lava Leaper's ability activated on the initial attack.. you'd remove a different unit than if the Lava Leaper's ability activated on the second (frenzy) attack. This is a rare situation.. but one that exists in the game nonetheless.

Maybe I'm not thinking in the right direction, but I can't think of any reason why you'd pick a different unit on the second attack than you would on the first.

You aren't doing two "rounds" of battle, it's just that each unit attacks twice during the same round of battle, meaning that whether you roll for your lava leaper twice in a row separately, or roll both at once, I don't see how it would make a difference.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unless I'm mistaken, you are thus saying that the "second attack" is basically done in a second round.

IE, like this:

PD -> LL -> RS -> Cr -> Fu -> Hu -> PD -> LL -> RS -> Cr -> Fu -> Hu

Right?


This is incorrect; that would actually be two rounds of battle, which is done by a different card altogether. Frenzy allows each unit to attack twice when it's their turn to attack.

PD x2 -> LL x2 -> RS x2 -> Cr x2 -> Fu x2 -> Hu x2

IE, your LL would attack twice at the same phase; the Rock Striders, et al, do NOT get a chance to attack prior to the Lava Leapers second attack.

The way it's worded in the book is as follows:
"Units attack in a particular order, called the order of battle, as shown on each reference chart. The order runs from right to left. All Rubium Dragons attack first, then all Lava Leapers, and so on. Once each unit has attacked in order, then the battle in that space ends for the turn"

The last sentence is clear that once each unit has attacked, the battle is over. Thus, if they attack twice, it would either be two battles (via Critical Objective) or twice when it's their turn in the order. Thus, when "All Rubium Dragons attack first", that Rubium Dragon attacks twice at that time.

Thus, I still don't see what it would matter if you roll the two attacks together or separately; the attacks will be resolved completely before resolving the next unit's attacks anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Ritter
United States
Shoreline
Washington
flag msg tools
We play it as affecting all units (both players). This grants an advantage to the side with numerical superiority, or at least the side with more "early" units. The general effect is to end the battle sooner, which is sometimes desirable. (Either give me my victory or give me my Energize card!)

In this respect, it is very much like the card that causes a second round of battle. (But as noted by others, the casualties are taken at a different time, which means it's of advantage in slightly different circumstances.)

Given three Rock Striders, I would roll 6 dice, then remove casualties. As casualties aren't removed until all attacks in that step of the order of battle are complete, you can't roll attack one, remove casualties, then roll attack two.

Hope that helps!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for all the feedback!

It appears everyone has a different opinion on this card, as we found out during our games. I'm going to check out the AH site for a Q&A.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Ritter
United States
Shoreline
Washington
flag msg tools
Quote:
Now.. if the player.. after the initial attack (which does NOT activate the ability of the Lava Leaper) elects to remove a small unit (one that has NOT attacked in battle).. thereby removing the chance to win the battle this round.. you.. on the second attack (which DOES activate the ability of the Lava Leaper) will elect to remove the strongest unit in battle.. since the battle cannot be won this turn by the opponent.. unless a card is played.


Do you understand?


I disagree that any casualties are removed between "attacks". Normally each unit gets one attack. Two lava Leapers, two attacks. These attacks are simultaneous. The card gives them each two attacks. Two Lava leapers, 4 attacks, or one lava leaper = two attacks. Still simultaneous.

Regardless of the number of "hits" (targeted or not), no casualties are removed until all the attacks for that unit type have been rolled.

I'm guessing people understood what you meant, but as no casualties are removed until all the Leapers have finished all attacks (contrary to what you are implying), there is no difference.

Of course, I could be wrong, it's happened once before. I thought it had happened a second time once, but it turned out not to have.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, I'm afraid I don't understand. I don't see how it would be any different if the person were to choose them both at once, rather than roll separately. Since the first roll and the result has no impact at all on the second roll and result, I fail to see how it would matter.

For the Lava Leaper, for example, if you lose two units, I don't see how it matters who chooses those units, unless you have an objective that specifies you are trying to kill a certain unit; and in that case, the second roll would allow you to achieve that.

Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding. Here's an example to explain where I'm coming from.

Player A (attacker) has:
1 RD, 2 LL, 3 Fungoids

Player B (defender) has:
1 RD, 2 RS, 2 Human

Frenzy is played.

First, the RDs attack. Player A rolls 2 dice: 1 5. Player B rolls 2 dice: 2 4. Player A chooses to lose a Fungoid and his RD. Player B loses a Human.

Second, the LLs attack. Player A rolls 2 dice: 3 6 5 2. Player A chooses to kill both RS, player B chooses to kill a Human.

Finally, the Fungoids attack. Player A rolls 4 dice: 1 2 3 6. Player B loses his RD and the battle.


I don't see how rolling separately for the LLs would have made any difference; Player B would have still lost a total of 3 units.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Iniguez
United States
Idaho Springs
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I see what is being suggested by rolling separately for each attack, but I don't think that is the correct interpretation. The card just says "each unit makes two attacks" not "each unit makes an attack, removes casulties, then makes another attack, then remove casulties again." In the spirit of simple, fast play, it is much better for the card to just double the number of attacks you make during each step of the combat.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's completely clear that it affects both players, and they just double the number of dice rolled at each step. If you have multiple Lava Leapers in a battle, you don't have to roll them one by one and decide, after each one, which enemy to remove. You just roll all of the dice and then remove the number of units. If you have Frenzy, then you roll twice as many dice, and then remove the number of units.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
flag msg tools
CHA was my dump stat
badge
Snob of the People
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This came up in the response to a session report I wrote:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/142801

and after reviewing it I decided that the card is totally ambiguous!

However, I suspect that David dJ above is correct (and intend to declare that ruling as "official" before plays). Has anyone seen this addressed in an errata/FAQ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I kinda see your point. But I disagree in your conclusion.

The rules state: "When a unit type comes up in the order of battle, both the attacker and defender simultaneously make an attack roll for each unit they have of that type."

And then later, in the example of taking casualties: "...casualties
are chosen after all units of a given type attack."

The latter sentence I think is the key, especially coupled with the first. You don't choose casualties until all units of a given type attack. It doesn't matter if they attack ONCE or attack TWICE, you don't take any casualties until after they have all resolved their attacks.

I think I see where you are coming from, but I do not believe the rules support breaking it down into two "sets" of attacks.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since only the Lava Leaper would be killing units in that portion of the battle, you would use it's ability to select which unit you want to destroy from your opponent. Then you would move on to the next unit type and roll attacks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the bottom-right corner of page 8 is a little box that actually answers this very question (though why they couldn't include it in the main text is beyond me):

"The player whose turn it is always makes decisions first, such as deciding which casualties to remove or whether to play an Energize battle card."

Thus, the person whos turn it is removes any casualties he/she has the choice of picking first, then the other player chooses.

Example: If each player has a LL, a RS, and 2 Humans. Lets say for the LL rolls, each player rolls a "normal" hit and a "choose" hit.

The Attacker would choose one of his own units to remove for the defending player's "normal" hit, as well as one of the defending players units to remove for the "choose" hit.

Then the Defender would choose one of his own units to remove for the attacking player's "normal" hit, and choose which one of the attacking player's units to remove for HIS "choose" hit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Muffins
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mb
DaviddesJ wrote:
I think it's completely clear that it affects both players, and they just double the number of dice rolled at each step. If you have multiple Lava Leapers in a battle, you don't have to roll them one by one and decide, after each one, which enemy to remove. You just roll all of the dice and then remove the number of units. If you have Frenzy, then you roll twice as many dice, and then remove the number of units.


Wow. I never read it that way. I always assumed that it only applied to the person who played it, like a battle stimulant or outflank.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.