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Subject: Game Packages rss

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Steve Pole

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Games which include more than one scenario tend to focus upon battles from a particular war (eg, four battles from the Napoleonic Wars), period (eg Medieval) or, sometimes, weapon system (eg, Tanks).

As far as I am aware, no-one has produced such a game where the scenarios are derived from different periods; but, where the military situation is similar. For instance, there are obvious parallels between Edgehill and First Bull Run: opening engagements in civil wars between armies composed mainly of amateurs. Whilst the Rules would need to recognise the changes in military technology during the 200 odd years between these conflicts, the core mechanics could focus upon (the difficulties of) exercising command and control and (the fragility of) morale.

Other pairings of scenarios might involve, say, two or more where interior lines featured prominently: say, Napoleon at Leipzig and Lee at Antietam (even, perhaps Belisarius at Daras?). Here the focus of the Rules might be the contrast in terms of co-ordinating and concentrating units between the army operating within interior lines and the (usually, more numerous) army without that benefit.

Do you think that gamers would go for packages of this sort, please?
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Ron A
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HHHmm, can't think of any game(s) that fit your circumstances exactly, but there have been similar ideas before.

Back in the day (1970s) SPI ( it might have been Avalon Hill, we're talking 40 years ago) floated an idea in Vox Populi for a game that used one map, and covered multiple eras. The map was Russia, and covered Napoleon 1812, the German invasions of WW I and WWII and IIRC there was a 4th campaign but I can't remember what it was.

While researching this, I did see Four Roads to Moscow which has 4 designers giving their take on Barbarossa using one map, but 4 sets of rules.

There was also the SPI The Art of Siege quad, covering 4 battles, not sure how much the rules were common to the 4 games.

So, to answer your question, there would be/has been interest in the sort of games you are describing.
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Rubenpup wrote:
Games which include more than one scenario tend to focus upon battles from a particular war (eg, four battles from the Napoleonic Wars), period (eg Medieval) or, sometimes, weapon system (eg, Tanks).

As far as I am aware, no-one has produced such a game where the scenarios are derived from different periods; but, where the military situation is similar. For instance, there are obvious parallels between Edgehill and First Bull Run: opening engagements in civil wars between armies composed mainly of amateurs. Whilst the Rules would need to recognise the changes in military technology during the 200 odd years between these conflicts, the core mechanics could focus upon (the difficulties of) exercising command and control and (the fragility of) morale.

Other pairings of scenarios might involve, say, two or more where interior lines featured prominently: say, Napoleon at Leipzig and Lee at Antietam (even, perhaps Belisarius at Daras?). Here the focus of the Rules might be the contrast in terms of co-ordinating and concentrating units between the army operating within interior lines and the (usually, more numerous) army without that benefit.

Do you think that gamers would go for packages of this sort, please?


Well not a quad game, but Strategy I attempted to do what you are suggesting with mixed results -- one system that criss-crossed time and warfare.
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Hunga Dunga
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I'd prefer it if publishers would give volume discounts!
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Michael McLean
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Hungadunga wrote:
I'd prefer it if publishers would give volume discounts!


But do you really NEED 24 copies of EOTS?
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Roger Hobden
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Hunga Dunga
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gocamels wrote:
Hungadunga wrote:
I'd prefer it if publishers would give volume discounts!


But do you really NEED 24 copies of EOTS?


DIFFERENT GAMES, you silly boy!
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Pete Belli
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This is an intriguing idea. thumbsup

SPI did something vaguely similar with The Art of Siege.

I would be delighted to play a series of battles structured in the way you have described.

EDIT: ninja
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Kent Reuber
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The closest thing I can think of is this issue of Six Angles:

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Michael McLean
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Hungadunga wrote:
gocamels wrote:
Hungadunga wrote:
I'd prefer it if publishers would give volume discounts!


But do you really NEED 24 copies of EOTS?


DIFFERENT GAMES, you silly boy!


Oohhh... that makes more sense.

Nevermind, then.

Sign me up.
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Alan Sutton
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This is a good idea Steve. The old quads were, as someone said, groups of battles from the same war. This is great value for people interested in a certain period, obviously. Napoleon's Last Battles was the greatest quad ever and is justifiably famous in the hobby.

Mind you, quads organised around a different principle would definitely be attractive. Some examples or categories might be: sieges (already done), meeting engagements, rearguard actions, retreats under fire, amphibious invasions, battles of attrition, flank attacks etc etc.

A good idea to demonstrate similar military circumstances in different ages. The trick would be for you, the designer, inventing a flexible enough system that could be used throughout the quad in the different time periods. The time periods would obviously need to be not too far apart. Having completely different rules for each game would negate the benefits of the quad idea and would tend to be more like a series linked by a concept but nothing else.



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Ronald Hill
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What you have suggested does sound intriguing, however, I think there might be the possibility that 1 main body of rules that covers 4 battles from different time periods may lead to 4 poor or weak games. I see the individual variations being too great. Although just under 75 years in time, the differences in the Boer War, the Great War, the Second World War and the Vietnam War are so vastly different. So having 1 main body of rules wouldn't work effectively.
Maybe we could modify your idea a bit. How about 2 games using 1 set of main body rules being paired with another 2 games also using a different 1 set of main body rules with all 4 games having a similar theme. For example a game called 'The Civil Wars' with 2 games/scenarios from the English Civil War and 2 other games/scenarios from the American Civil War. Or, the game called 'The Revolutions' with 2 games/scenarios from the American Revolution and 2 games/scenarios from the Russian Revolution. Or, the game called 'Sea Invasions' with 2 games/scenarios from the 7 Years War and 2 games from the Second World War.
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Steve Pole

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Alan/Ronald,

Yes, the individual scenarios would need to be selected carefully so that contrasts in terms of weaponry and such like don’t obscure the overarching theme of the game.

I don’t think that this would present an impassable obstacle, for periods prior to the great technological advances of the C20, at least. As something of a crass generalisation/(over)simplification, most armies were marshalled into units comprising infantry, cavalry and some kind of artillery; and, by and large, battles started with said units formed up in a line facing the enemy units with, perhaps, 100 yards between the opposing forces.

Indeed, it might even be possible to use the same counter-set for each scenario. An infantry piece could represent body of pikemen at Edgehill and of muskets at First Bull Run.

I suppose the danger, as Ronald points out, is that reductionism of this kind may result in scenarios which don’t really reflect the tactics and technology of any of the periods covered by the game.

Regards,



Steve
22.11.15
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Len K
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pete belli wrote:
This is an intriguing idea. thumbsup

SPI did something vaguely similar with The Art of Siege.

I would be delighted to play a series of battles structured in the way you have described.

EDIT: ninja


Uh oh. I smell a quad-pack of One Minute Sieges coming.
 
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Pete Belli
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k1nu wrote:
Uh oh. I smell a quad-pack of One Minute Sieges coming.


Since a One-Minute Little Bighorn prototype is already being developed I could produce an entire package of similar games based on overconfident military leaders marching into disaster.

The list of potential battles is, to say the least, quite extensive. shake
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Steve Pole

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Andy (Loakes) would be the man for a quad focusing upon sieges.
 
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Len K
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pete belli wrote:
k1nu wrote:
Uh oh. I smell a quad-pack of One Minute Sieges coming.


Since a One-Minute Little Bighorn prototype is already being developed I could produce an entire package of similar games based on overconfident military leaders marching into disaster.

The list of potential battles is, to say the least, quite extensive. shake


I would P500 that!
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One possibility would be Ancient Battles Deluxe - while it does not have the similar tactical situation across multiple periods of history, it does provide all the tools to do so, allowing you to simulate battles across pretty much all pre-1400/1500AD battles
 
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Juan Valdez
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k1nu wrote:
pete belli wrote:
k1nu wrote:
Uh oh. I smell a quad-pack of One Minute Sieges coming.


Since a One-Minute Little Bighorn prototype is already being developed I could produce an entire package of similar games based on overconfident military leaders marching into disaster.

The list of potential battles is, to say the least, quite extensive. shake


I would P500 that!


Yup.
 
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gocamels wrote:
Hungadunga wrote:
I'd prefer it if publishers would give volume discounts!


But do you really NEED 24 copies of EOTS?
Well no, but you can never have enough copies of DAK2.
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Andy Loakes
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Rubenpup wrote:
Andy (Loakes) would be the man for a quad focusing upon sieges.

LOL Kind of you to say Steve but I'm not sure that is true. I seem to be getting a reputation for being a siege designer - primarily based on my one published design so far Toulon, 1793 - and that isn't really a sieg at all.

I guess I'm not helping myself in that my next game (Waning Crescent, Shattered Cross - Malta 1565) will be a genuine siege game. So I only have myself to blame and I've been approached regarding the joint design of the 1807 siege of Danzig; so that will seal my reputation for siege games.

Andy

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Carl Paradis
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Rubenpup wrote:
Games which include more than one scenario tend to focus upon battles from a particular war (eg, four battles from the Napoleonic Wars), period (eg Medieval) or, sometimes, weapon system (eg, Tanks).

As far as I am aware, no-one has produced such a game where the scenarios are derived from different periods; but, where the military situation is similar. For instance, there are obvious parallels between Edgehill and First Bull Run: opening engagements in civil wars between armies composed mainly of amateurs. Whilst the Rules would need to recognise the changes in military technology during the 200 odd years between these conflicts, the core mechanics could focus upon (the difficulties of) exercising command and control and (the fragility of) morale.


This game did, in a way (no dice!):

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4299/battle-game-general...

" Depending on which era is being played, there will be different numbers and types of the counters and their individual capabilities are geared towards that era. "





 
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Steve Pole

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Andy,

You could make a career out of sieges of Danzig; there's lots. From memory, I think that the Swedes(?) kept it under siege for five years during the Great Northern War.

Maybe you could devise a scenario for each siege using the same map?


Carl,

I've not come across "Battle" before. I'll see if I can find out more. I suppose BGG would be a good place to start!

Regards,



Steve
23.11.15
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Carl Paradis
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Rubenpup wrote:



Carl,

I've not come across "Battle" before. I'll see if I can find out more. I suppose BGG would be a good place to start!

Steve, you are most welcome. You can get a copy cheap on BGG. As for me, I don't know what I did with mine. Probably gave it away, lats time I played was in the 80's (with a non-wargamer!) and the experience was not that bad.
 
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