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Subject: The two sides of the influence chits... rss

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Blake Phillips
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I don't have the rules in front of me but... if you control the country you use the solid side of the chit correct... in other words if the Soviets control the country they use the solid red side of the counter, if the Americans control it they use the solid blue side of the chit. Otherwise you use the white side of the chit. Looking at the photos submitted many do not seem to be doing this and I am wondering why. Some have devised other creative solutions which look cool - like colored cubes or the little flags but for those that seem to just be ignoring that rule - seems odd and looks like it would make things more difficult.
 
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Michel Boucher
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Yaboo wrote:
Looking at the photos submitted many do not seem to be doing this and I am wondering why.


The original (1st) edition had markers that were numbered but with the full colour (red or blue) on both sides. People who have been playing it longer are used to seeing the full colour counters for growing influence and I suspect are using the white (or new) side as the control marker.

Quote:
Some have devised other creative solutions which look cool - like colored cubes or the little flags


Eurogamers...can't get away from them...can't shoot them. I suppose they have to find something to do with all those little cubes.
 
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Blake Phillips
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Oh OK - that makes sense. I kept looking at the photos and thinking - that wrong - no control - there... and that's wrong - no control there... thanks for the clarification.

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Eurogamers...can't get away from them...can't shoot them. I suppose they have to find something to do with all those little cubes.


Oh crap - careful what you say - this could turn into one of those AT vs. Euro threads! Yikes...
 
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Michel Boucher
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Yaboo wrote:
Oh crap - careful what you say - this could turn into one of those AT vs. Euro threads! Yikes...


I ain't afraid of no Eurogamers devil
 
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Rick Holzgrafe
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Actually, the game was playtested with cubes, and the designers intended to publish it that way. But cubes turned out to be too expensive (you'd need a lot, I guess) and they had to go with chits.

Although I was not a playtester, I am the proud owner of a set of cubes used during the playtesting of Twilight Struggle!
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Zack Boatman
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Where I come from, we call the cubes "dice."
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Blake Phillips
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Quote:
Although I was not a playtester, I am the proud owner of a set of cubes used during the playtesting of Twilight Struggle!


Very cool... It actually looks like it works rather well... I have some small blue and red glass beads I am thinking of using. After my first few plays it seems like it would help add up what is going on when trying to decide on what cards to play.
 
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Peter Schott
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rholzgrafe wrote:
Actually, the game was playtested with cubes, and the designers intended to publish it that way. But cubes turned out to be too expensive (you'd need a lot, I guess) and they had to go with chits.



"Too expensive"??
This is one of the most expensive games I own - and I own quite a lot.
What did I get?
Some cheap standard counters, a lot of cards, and a really cheap, thin board which doesn´t lie flat.
I wonder, where is all the money? Surely not in production value.
Don´t get me wrong - this is a great game, and I don´t regret one dollar I payed for it. I was just wondering...
 
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castiglione
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Three words.

Economies of scale.
 
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Michel Boucher
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pethulhu wrote:
This is one of the most expensive games I own - and I own quite a lot.
What did I get?
Some cheap standard counters,


The 2nd edition counters are thinner than the first edition ones. But one does not look so much to thickness as a sign of quality, as to the information contained on said counters. Where it matters, the counters are preferable to tiny coloured cubes of no particular significance.

Quote:
a lot of cards,


You wanted less cards? How many less? Which less?

Quote:
and a really cheap, thin board which doesn´t lie flat.


Actually, that's the Deluxe map. Most wargames nowadays come with paper maps. So fold it back, already!

Quote:
I wonder, where is all the money? Surely not in production value.


Wargame production costs are less on eye candy and more on functionality. All counters and map sections are unique and design is important. Some wargames have 64 pages of rules plus 32 pages of scenarios, some of which take months to play. Decision Games has one game with over 25 maps and 9000 counters, not to mention hundreds of pages of rules. I have yet to see a tiny block game achieve anything remotely approaching that level of complexity.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/22843

Which is a rerelease of this game:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/9650

one of the largest games ever published at 3200 counters. Even the massive Campaigns for North Africa (1200 hours of play, yes 1200!) only had about 1800 counters. If you had to translate 9000 counters into tiny blocks and hardboard mounted maps, the cost of production would be prohibitive and you'd need a box the size of a fridge.

I own some tiny block games (Byzantium, End of the Triumvirate) and I have owned some others (Tigris and Euphrates). Somehow, and it may just be me, I don't find insignificance to be preferable to significance.

 
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Peter Schott
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I just wanted to say that I payed less for more quite often. And I payed ca 50 Euros for this gem. (57$ on the gmt shop)
Perhaps it is just what I am used to in games. (I´m German, after all , that´s roughly middle-EUROland)
I don´t have to have wooden cubes. I like counters. But I despise off the board. A hard board wouldn´t be impossible for this price. I mean 57$. That´s really a lot.
And now I stop ranting
 
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Tamás Szõnyi
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I have to agree with Peter...I hava a lot of games too, but this game is expensive, if I see this from the view of material. I have (for example) Railroad Tycoon about the same price, or History of the world, or Axis&Allies, or Twilight Imperium...they are all very good games, but You get much more quality in material. I am not saying anything wrong about TS, since this IS a very very good game, and I love it, but compare the material quality...it IS expensive.
 
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Philip Thomas
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On the other hand, taking into account that this is a ten times better game than Axis and Allies, it seems quite cheap from my perspective.
 
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Tamás Szõnyi
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Ray
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http://www.boardgameprices.com/game.aspx?id=100471
 
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Eric Landes
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wtrollkin2000 wrote:


That might be the first time I've seen Troll and Toad be cheapest at ANYthing.
 
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Peter Schott
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Thanks for the link.
Though not very usefull for me, as I live in germany.
I usually buy here: http://www.delayedreactions.de/
or here: http://www.spiele-offensive.de/
 
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