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Subject: Playtesting A Nice Cup of Tea: The Wye Valley Tourer rss

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Anthony Boydell
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Welcome!


The Wye Valley Tourer: Travel along the scenic Wye Valley, directing the construction but also taking time out for a cup of tea!


So, this is a thread to track the playing of, and feedback from, play-test games of a new scenario for Snowdonia; it is one of two scenarios that I plan to include in this 'large' expansion ie. A Nice Cup of Tea needs needs more cards, more wooden pieces and - crucially for the Tea Gardens scenario - a new board!

If you'd like to take part, the files for print-and-play (and, in the case of the board: print-and-stick) are to be found here:



The rules are in DOCX and PDF format, the cards (and a copy of the board) in PPTX and PDF and there's also a png of the board. I've had probs in the past with Mac-generated PDFs, so if they're odd/unusable then PLEASE LET ME KNOW and I'll produce some PNGs instead!

And, finally, some bits and pieces to note:
The Wye Valley Tourer uses the 'regular' Snowdonia board.

Let me know who you are!

Photos (broad, close-ups etc) during, and after, games then posted to the Forums would be excellent!

In any session reports, please note
a) which scenario (obvs)
b) how many players
c) how long it took
d) key events, anomalies, anecdotes etc!

Please be honest with your feedback!

Have fun!!!

*** Reminder: This is the thread for the Wye Valley Tourer scenario ***
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Allen OConnor
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Thanks for posting Tony. My friends will love this.
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Peter Beynon
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Thanks Tony, thats the weekend booked up for a spell of printing then! laughwhistle
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Anthony Boydell
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QUICK NOTE:

The card pages have four, double-sided cards on each; the top card is side 1, the one on the bottom line is side 2 (hence the big arrow too).

Ok?
 
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Lynn
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I got a 2-player game of this in today. It's left me with a bunch of questions and comments. I'll try to make this coherent, but there was a lot going on...

Our game went very long because the event cubes just didn't seem to want to come out of the bag. (Well, on the second and third rounds they did, but we only had 7 events total. Crazy. Every time I looked in the bag the white cubes winked at me, but when I reached in they rarely were pulled out.) We also had amazing strings of foggy and rainy weather. (sun, sun, sun, fog, sun, rain, fog, fog, fog, rain, rain, sun, fog, rain, rain, rain.) Fortunately things started sunny so we had some stuff cleared...

"Taking Tea" made for an interesting tension. Ignoring the Surveyor action was not a good idea (though, of course, there are other ways to Take Tea.)

Questions that came up:

One of the contract cards doesn't have a number. Was it supposed to replace 27, by any chance? When 27 came up I pulled it from the game because the ability was meaningless and the unnumbered contract card had the same 2 pts./coal reward.

Also, can that unnumbered contract's ability be used to build track in the fog? (In a 2-player game the single build track action spot is blocked.)

A question/comment about iconography in set-up. On several of the contract cards there are 3 symbols (track, tunnel, river.) When there are 2 symbols, they're separated by a "+" but with 3 there's only one "+" and 2 symbols next to each other. It would have been clearer to me if there had been another separator, IF that's what you meant to begin with.

The excavation, tunnel building and lay track actions can take place from either end of the railway. So...
1. Can the action be "split"--taking some rubble from one side and the other. I'm thinking in a single action. (We didn't play that way, but I wondered.)
2. For the events, do they happen only from the Chepstow end? We played that way, but as I said, we had very few events so it wasn't a huge impact. What scenario is it that has the events switching back and forth?

In the rules under resolving the [B] action, Tunnel Track section, you say "If you cannot pay the stone, that part of the excavation does nothing and you do not place a marker or get the rubble." So, does that mean that not just "you" don't get the rubble, but that no rubble is removed at all? (It might have been clearer to just say "that part does nothing" but I want to be certain.)

Under "Important New Rule" What exactly is meant by "one of your markers already allocated for scoring?" Obviously NOT one from the postcard, but what about the station spaces with non-point rewards? They are the ones I'd least want to keep if I could move the marker to increase my score, so I want to make sure that's OK.

When a cube is moved off of a scoring space on a station, can that space be rebuilt? Even rebuilt later by the same player? For instance, I had the No.6 Padarn train, allowing me extra build actions whenever someone took a build action so I moved a lot of cubes. (Very nice.) I had built on the Ross-on-Wye spot that grants an extra worker, I later moved that marker, then built there again. Was that OK?

Our game:

Early on I got a contract for having 6 cubes on tunnel track cards. It seemed like a good idea as I already had a bunch of cubes on tunnel track and the card allowed me to pull three resources from the bag.) It tied up a lot of cubes for me, though, and in the very last round I realized I could get more points by abandoning that contract, moving the cubes to station spaces, and scoring an alternate contract.

My husband had the No. 2 Enid and was able to get lots of iron bars on the cheap and build lots of track (when the fog finally relented.) He was able to fill all his contracts. We both emptied our Postcards. The game ended when my opponent (finally) placed his last marker. (There were 2 unbuilt track cards left--we thought there was one, but as I was cleaning up I realized we skipped an "excavated" river track card.) I think we avoided taking tea in the rain with the surveyor action, but we may have messed that up at one point.

I suspect this will go better on a second play, now that we've had one go at it. Here's how the final scores came out:

Player: Me
Contracts: 65
Postcard: 0
Stations: 59
Track: 19
TOTALS: 143

Player: David
Contracts: 86
Postcard: 0
Stations: 15
Track: 35
TOTALS: 136


I'll edit to add the photo. I need my other computer for that.
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Anthony Boydell
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LynnCh wrote:
I got a 2-player game of this in today. It's left me with a bunch of questions and comments. I'll try to make this coherent, but there was a lot going on...

Our game went very long because the event cubes just didn't seem to want to come out of the bag. (Well, on the second and third rounds they did, but we only had 7 events total. Crazy. Every time I looked in the bag the white cubes winked at me, but when I reached in they rarely were pulled out.) We also had amazing strings of foggy and rainy weather. (sun, sun, sun, fog, sun, rain, fog, fog, fog, rain, rain, sun, fog, rain, rain, rain.) Fortunately things started sunny so we had some stuff cleared...

"Taking Tea" made for an interesting tension. Ignoring the Surveyor action was not a good idea (though, of course, there are other ways to Take Tea.)

Questions that came up:

One of the contract cards doesn't have a number. Was it supposed to replace 27, by any chance? When 27 came up I pulled it from the game because the ability was meaningless and the unnumbered contract card had the same 2 pts./coal reward.


Yes - that's me cutting-and-pasting in Powerpoint...cutting a bit too much!

LynnCh wrote:
Also, can that unnumbered contract's ability be used to build track in the fog? (In a 2-player game the single build track action spot is blocked.)


No - the space is not 'occupied' by the game, the whole action is unavailable - nice try though!

LynnCh wrote:
A question/comment about iconography in set-up. On several of the contract cards there are 3 symbols (track, tunnel, river.) When there are 2 symbols, they're separated by a "+" but with 3 there's only one "+" and 2 symbols next to each other. It would have been clearer to me if there had been another separator, IF that's what you meant to begin with.


Ok :-)

LynnCh wrote:
The excavation, tunnel building and lay track actions can take place from either end of the railway. So...
1. Can the action be "split"--taking some rubble from one side and the other. I'm thinking in a single action. (We didn't play that way, but I wondered.)


No.

LynnCh wrote:
2. For the events, do they happen only from the Chepstow end? We played that way, but as I said, we had very few events so it wasn't a huge impact. What scenario is it that has the events switching back and forth?


For the moment, yes. I wanted Ross-on-Wye to be available for the market spaces...(and it's Blaenau that flips)

LynnCh wrote:
In the rules under resolving the [B] action, Tunnel Track section, you say "If you cannot pay the stone, that part of the excavation does nothing and you do not place a marker or get the rubble." So, does that mean that not just "you" don't get the rubble, but that no rubble is removed at all? (It might have been clearer to just say "that part does nothing" but I want to be certain.)


The rubble comes off to general supply ie. you dug but the game contractor built the tunnel walls for you (booooooo!)

LynnCh wrote:
Under "Important New Rule" What exactly is meant by "one of your markers already allocated for scoring?" Obviously NOT one from the postcard, but what about the station spaces with non-point rewards? They are the ones I'd least want to keep if I could move the marker to increase my score, so I want to make sure that's OK.


This is a big boo-boo on my part! Because running out of cubes is very likely in solo / 2pl, this end game condition CANNOT be interfered with! So this important new rule is for (3-5 players only)! Also, cubes on your postcard are not considered when seeing if you've run out ie. you place 13 scoring cubes with 3 still on your postcard = game end trigger!

LynnCh wrote:
When a cube is moved off of a scoring space on a station, can that space be rebuilt? Even rebuilt later by the same player? For instance, I had the No.6 Padarn train, allowing me extra build actions whenever someone took a build action so I moved a lot of cubes. (Very nice.) I had built on the Ross-on-Wye spot that grants an extra worker, I later moved that marker, then built there again. Was that OK?


No - put a rubble cube on the space to show it's already been done (it explicitly says this for the Darjeeling scenario, just forgot to put it in the rules for this one!)

LynnCh wrote:
Our game:

Early on I got a contract for having 6 cubes on tunnel track cards. It seemed like a good idea as I already had a bunch of cubes on tunnel track and the card allowed me to pull three resources from the bag.) It tied up a lot of cubes for me, though, and in the very last round I realized I could get more points by abandoning that contract, moving the cubes to station spaces, and scoring an alternate contract.

My husband had the No. 2 Enid and was able to get lots of iron bars on the cheap and build lots of track (when the fog finally relented.) He was able to fill all his contracts. We both emptied our Postcards. The game ended when my opponent (finally) placed his last marker. (There were 2 unbuilt track cards left--we thought there was one, but as I was cleaning up I realized we skipped an "excavated" river track card.) I think we avoided taking tea in the rain with the surveyor action, but we may have messed that up at one point.

I suspect this will go better on a second play, now that we've had one go at it. Here's how the final scores came out:

Player: Me
Contracts: 65
Postcard: 0
Stations: 59
Track: 19
TOTALS: 143

Player: David
Contracts: 86
Postcard: 0
Stations: 15
Track: 35
TOTALS: 136


I'll edit to add the photo. I need my other computer for that.


I'm thinking we Brits will drink tea ANYTIME, so I'll probably remove the 'cannot drink tea when it is raining' rule...

Thanks!
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tonyboydell wrote:
LynnCh wrote:
Also, can that unnumbered contract's ability be used to build track in the fog? (In a 2-player game the single build track action spot is blocked.)


No - the space is not 'occupied' by the game, the whole action is unavailable - nice try though!

We didn't think that would be OK, but had to ask.

tonyboydell wrote:
LynnCh wrote:
In the rules under resolving the [B] action, Tunnel Track section, you say "If you cannot pay the stone, that part of the excavation does nothing and you do not place a marker or get the rubble." So, does that mean that not just "you" don't get the rubble, but that no rubble is removed at all? (It might have been clearer to just say "that part does nothing" but I want to be certain.)


The rubble comes off to general supply ie. you dug but the game contractor built the tunnel walls for you (booooooo!)

OK. So if I didn't have enough stone for all the excavations, I might still choose it to block an opponent, I guess, and to get to closer to the next station.

tonyboydell wrote:
LynnCh wrote:
Under "Important New Rule" What exactly is meant by "one of your markers already allocated for scoring?" Obviously NOT one from the postcard, but what about the station spaces with non-point rewards? They are the ones I'd least want to keep if I could move the marker to increase my score, so I want to make sure that's OK.


This is a big boo-boo on my part! Because running out of cubes is very likely in solo / 2pl, this end game condition CANNOT be interfered with! So this important new rule is for (3-5 players only)! Also, cubes on your postcard are not considered when seeing if you've run out ie. you place 13 scoring cubes with 3 still on your postcard = game end trigger!

Wow, that really would have made a difference for me. My husband actually did very little moving of markers and had placed his last after emptying his postcard. We did, of course, tie up a bunch of markers taking tea with the surveyor. If more station events had happened (even just one more) we'd have each gotten a marker(or more) back. As it is those markers were stuck.

Is it that solo & 2pl can't move scoring markers at all, even if they haven't used them all yet? (It makes sense that you'd be stuck with what's left on your postcard.) Maybe I ask because I just like the idea of being able to move markers but won't be able to because I almost always play solo or 2-player. (It's true that too much moving markers feels silly, but those Ross-on-Wye abilities are a lot less tempting now.)

tonyboydell wrote:
LynnCh wrote:
When a cube is moved off of a scoring space on a station, can that space be rebuilt? Even rebuilt later by the same player? For instance, I had the No.6 Padarn train, allowing me extra build actions whenever someone took a build action so I moved a lot of cubes. (Very nice.) I had built on the Ross-on-Wye spot that grants an extra worker, I later moved that marker, then built there again. Was that OK?


No - put a rubble cube on the space to show it's already been done (it explicitly says this for the Darjeeling scenario, just forgot to put it in the rules for this one!)


OK, that would definitely change how I used (or would choose not to use) those other spaces. It makes more sense, though.

tonyboydell wrote:
I'm thinking we Brits will drink tea ANYTIME, so I'll probably remove the 'cannot drink tea when it is raining' rule...

Sounds good to me.

Thanks for your replies. We clearly have to get back to this and play it right!
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Wye Valley Tourer


I played two solo games of Wye Valley then got a family game going. These sessions are all reported below.


Rules Assumptions:


⦁ I replaced Contract Cards 7, 8, 19 and 27. I removed 28 and 29.
⦁ I believe that on Station 9 "Ross-on-Wye" the Station Requirement Space in the lower left has a 4 Stone reward. The graphics were unclear to me if it was stone but I assumed so. Apologies if it's my cheap printer.
⦁ Once a River Hex is filled and flipped over, place the rubble in the general supply. ie not back to the player completing the card.
⦁ In setup, where a Station specified that it be preceded by "2 Track and One River", for example, I placed those card types in exactly that order.
⦁ The excavation event will fill a river card using one point of the work rate.
⦁ If a player has two markers on the same tunnel card both markers score and both can be used to fulfill contract card(s) requiring track lays.


The Three Player (Solo) Game Session


This was done throughout the afternoon between chores so I do not have a game length.

The start of this game saw a string of good weather and no white cubes showing up.

The early track was constructed quickly and the game soon centred onto the task of manouvering for position to excavate the 3 tunnels following the first track and concurrently grabbing Contract Cards rewarding track construction.

Only one player purchased a train (it was the Supply Loco) and he (I) did not use any of the rubble cubes which came with it. The 9 points seemed more valuable than the "take that" ability of stopping new resources from being drawn from the bag. Only now do I realize you also prevent white cubes from being drawn at a point in the game where you do not wish to see the game move along.

The Supply Loco was mainly bought for the third meeple hiring option and this player was able to take advantage of his third meeple by being the only player wanting/taking coal. The other trains each cost two steel which factored into the other two players declining to purchase a train while the maintenance event was still pending. Once the maintenance event occured it worked out that the trains still were not purchased; the two players making other priorities.

Iron ore began piling up in the stockpile (approx 20 of them by game end) which thus saw white cubes coming out faster. As markers were used up the players moved markers off the non-VP building squares. I had interpreted that markers could not be removed from the teapots at the bottom of the station cards nor from the building spaces with teapot rewards. Had I played the "Important New Rule" correctly, I estimate there would be an adequate supply of markers for players.

There was a shortage of station teapots available toward the end of the game. (Mostly because I applied the Blaenau rule in this first game, as discussed below). All three players left exactly the same two markers on the postcards; 6 and 0.

Final scores were 136, 115, 92.

The winner had succeeded in acquiring the majority of tunnel scores and matched them with the contracts rewarding track (#'s 9, 16 &20). He also had the Supply Loco. By an unfortunate fluke in shuffling, cards 7, 8 and 19 were in the bottom, unused, portion of the deck.

The second place player scored all four spaces on the Monmouth Viaduct. Only one space on the Duke of Beaufort's Bridge was built on.


The Four Player (Solo) Game Session

This session was a bit more orthodox. Weather was mixed throughout the game and white cubes came out at regular intervals. A white cube was on the train event before anyone had collected steel rails.

Three of four players purchased trains. The blue player never purchased one.

Decisions revolved once again around getting in the best position to build tunnel. Regular track builds were ignored while iron ore again piled up in the stockpile (totalling 12 by end of game). Pink got the lion's share of the tunnels and scooped up some track contract cards to reward her with track builds: #6, 20 and 23. She ignored cards 8 and 19 because of their low amount of VP's.

Yellow had 3 builds on the Duke of Beaufort's Bridge. Monmouth Viaduct remained empty.

Yellow failed to remove 4 of 5 markers from his postcard. The other three removed most or all of their markers before available teapot spaces dried up.

Final scores were: Pink 123, Green 99, Yellow 85, Blue 71. Half of Pink's points came from her contracts cards coupled with her multiple tunnel markers.


Four Player Family Session


This 4 person game session was played by two players familiar with Snowdonia and 2 who were not. Length of game was 2.5 hours due to rules explanation, AP and discussion of options and ramifications.

The new players found the game complex but agreed to play Snowdonia again. They liked and understood the new surveyor action and taking tea. Everyone understood the postcards as I explained them (see below for more on this). They found it hard to understand that two rubble cubes came off the tunnel cards for each point of work rate. I found that calling it "one pair" helped a little.

Everyone bought a train. No one bought the Supply Loco. I thought about buying it for the sake of feedback, but in the end did not feel any love for it. The tunnel contract cards were ignored.

As in the solo games a lot of iron ore collected in the stockpile. No one used up all of their markers. One person cleared off all of his postcard. Markers still on the other postcards were usually the zero and the 6.

The final score was
⦁ 95 Jo (New to Snowdonia)
⦁ 71 Me
⦁ 59 Jan (Experienced Player)
⦁ 44 Don (New to Snowdonia)

Here is the board at end game. Jo won by scoring high on her contract cards. Jo and I got the lion's share of tunnels.



Observations & Some points for Discussion


⦁ I note you are thinking of removing the restriction forbidding using Action G in the rain. I think this would simplify the rules and is how we played it.
⦁ I incorrectly assumed the Blaenau rule applied in the three player solo game during the Building Event. As a result the Wye market was removed too early and its 3 teapots lost. I concur the Blaenau rule should not be used. I did not apply it in the other games and it felt much better.
⦁ At one point a player used the Excavation Action to excavate half a dozen rubble cubes. Contrary to your FAQ in a recent post, I allowed the player to chose how many rubble to take from each end. Since he had First Player locked up next turn, this allowed him to remove rubble in such a way as to leave him opportunity for some large VP's next round. I thought this added to the game by keeping things interesting plus games that make players feel clever are good. Just my thoughts.
⦁ The tunnels are very valuable; you can build track cheap and without steel and then count the tunnels as tunnel or track on the contract cards (As per my rules assumption above). Are they too powerful for a balanced game or do unwise players ignore tunnels and contract cards at their peril?
⦁ Whoever gets the tunnels also gets a lot of rubble. This is good for rivers, contract cards and multiple conversions to stone. This adds to the power of the tunnel cards. Is there too much rubble on the tunnel cards? Would halving the amount of rubble on the tunnels and making the excavation action remove one rubble cube not one pair address this? (ie take one rubble cube off a tunnel card per point of the work rate, pay one stone to place one marker on the card). Or do opposing players need to watch for this and grab those rubble contract cards away from others?
⦁ I was a little short on rubble cubes during setup.
⦁ On Ross-on-Wye Station the upper right building space returns a free action. It was never used in the above three games. You spend an action+coal to get an action?
⦁ There is a race to get your markers off your postcard before the teapot spaces disappear. Something to remember early in the game.
⦁ Resources start to pile up in the stock yard by end of game.


The Postcards

I found the postcard mechanic to work fine, adding more decisions in gameplay. We liked it.

I offer one bit of feedback: the scoring calculation/procedure is not intuitive to me. I found I had to go back and reread this rules section at several points in the game and I do not look forward to explaining the mathmatical operation to other groups. (I am usually the rules explainer).

During play I hit on the device of ignoring the -24 and imagining each cube was marking a score of negative VP's (-11, -6, -4 and -3 and zero). At the end of the game any points on your postcard marked by one of your markers "scores" those points (which sadly for the player are negative). I found this easier to understand and explain.


Graphics

One of the players misread the river cube due to the graphic; she thought you needed four stone to fill the river instead of rubble. I agreed with her that the iconography seemed to be indicating this since the stone cube pictured on the card was too close to the numeral indicating the number of rubble required.


Lastly

I hope the foregoing was respectful and helpful. I enjoyed the expansion. It puts new variety into the game without adding a too complex set of new rules. Well done.
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Anthony Boydell
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This feedback is excellent, Tom; really, really useful! Many thanks!

Now try Darjeeling devil
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tonyboydell wrote:
This feedback is excellent, Tom; really, really useful! Many thanks!

Now try Darjeeling devil


I would like to but cannot print off the board. I guess I will just have to buy the expansion when it comes out.

I am glad my thoughts were helpful. My family enjoyed the experience of being playtesters and will be glad to know you appreciated our feedback.
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Anthony Boydell
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TomAquin wrote:
tonyboydell wrote:
This feedback is excellent, Tom; really, really useful! Many thanks!

Now try Darjeeling devil


I would like to but cannot print off the board. I guess I will just have to buy the expansion when it comes out.

I am glad my thoughts were helpful. My family enjoyed the experience of being playtesters and will be glad to know you appreciated our feedback.


Tom,

I've chopped up the board in to A4 print-able pieces and put PPTX and PDF versions in the Nice Cup of Tea Dropbox share...let me know if they're of any use!

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tonyboydell wrote:

Tom,

I've chopped up the board in to A4 print-able pieces and put PPTX and PDF versions in the Nice Cup of Tea Dropbox share...let me know if they're of any use!


That worked perfectly. Thank you.

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tonyboydell wrote:
I've chopped up the board in to A4 print-able pieces and put PPTX and PDF versions in the Nice Cup of Tea Dropbox share...let me know if they're of any use!


Brilliant! Thanks Tony. Now I can print it all out on Friday. Ink cartridges permitting!
 
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