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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: anyone else feeling like this game is suffering from "expansion bloat?" rss

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Jason Ling
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This game already has over 2000 cards just from the marvel stuff. I can't imagine how people who combine it with alien/predator feel. (not to mention the upcoming firefly and BTiLC versions) I'm starting to wonder if maybe this game might be on it's last few years.

There comes a point where people ar going to say "Look, this game has gotten to big for it's britches, I've got other games I wanna play." and I knew not everyone buys every set, but in time the average player's collection of legenday stuff is gonna get huge...

I'm starting to worry this game is nearing critical mass. and It might be nearing the end of it's run. What do you think?
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Rob Rob
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I think there is a big difference between the Marvel expansions and the stand alone games such as Aliens, Predator, etc... Yes there have been a ton of Marvel expansions but none at all (that I know of) for the other games.

I know they make more money selling a stand alone game they do an expansion but personally I wish they'd wait a bit longer between the Legendary stand alone versions of Firefly, BTiLC, or Munchkin and throw a few expansion crumbs to those of us who like the stand alone games as stand alone games.
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Jacovis
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Unlike many many other games that get lots of expansions, the thing Legendary has going for it is that it doesn't require you to use most of the expansions with each other, or even the whole expansion at a time.

This means that while there are tons and tons of different combinations of cards, I don't feel like the bloat is here in the same sense something like Arkham Horror got bloated. Each one of those expansions for AH is a bear to add in, and has weird dependencies, etc. plus added game space. Legendary's model just means you have more options to choose from without changing the fundamental status or basis of the game to use cards from an expansion.

So, no, I don't think it is reaching critical mass, and in fact I will continue to welcome new additions for as long as they produce them because my sandbox just keeps,getting more toys in it, and that is not a bad thing.

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Yeah, Legendary doesn't suffer quite like Ascension did, where you basically just had to treat each couple expansions as a miniset and not combine with others because you'd dilute their novel mechanics so much. You do get in trouble with team combos and a few other things, but generally you really can just go random selection and still be OK. But I will say, I love Legendary (my favorite deckbuilder) and yet have the last couple expansions still in shrinkwrap, so I think I'm probably calling it a day with Secret Wars.
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Ethan Soanka
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I agree with the OP. I stopped with Legendary: Marvel once I saw Secret Wars and how far out it was. I figured with all the other Heroes expansions, I have tons of replay-ability. I'm in for the small expansions like the upcoming Captain America one, but this Secret Wars stuff is (in my opinion), just whacked out. I'm an old school Marvel fan and really stopped collecting once all these Alt Universe comic titles flooded the market.
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Greg Schuette
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I personally don't feel like it suffers at all in this way. I have all expansions including Villains stuff. But, I don't have alien or predator (not interested in the licenses at all).

As a previous poster stated, I just want more combos. Love everything that is happening with Secret Wars, looking forward to Captain America, and hopefully Civil War.

I hope we get more and more expansions!
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Mike Runnestrand
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WhiteTiger78 wrote:
I'm an old school Marvel fan and really stopped collecting once all these Alt Universe comic titles flooded the market.


6 months ago?
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Ovi Matteo
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Good God, I hope Jeff doesn't read this thread! Move along people, nothing to see here!

On a more serious note, I believe we are not there yet.

Do we have all of our favorite characters? No.

There are tons of custom cards here. Does this mean that we had enough? No.

I am more concerned about making the game more fiddly as time goes by.


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Brian Morris
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I had planned for Secret Wars 1 to be my final purchase for the game but then Captain Britain got moved to Secret Wars 2 so that will be my final purchase. I love the game and have nothing against them coming out with more expansions. However for myself I have plenty of cards giving me endless replayability that I don't need anything more for it.

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Adam Sexton
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SW1 didn't really give me anything that blew my mind, in all honesty, I haven't even sleeved all of it and I've had it a week after it released. SW2 is looking to be the same so far. With that being said, I'll keep on buying whatever they churn out (marvel wise) Because this is my favorite game of all time! I've been playing it since day 1 and no matter how many cards I have, all I want is more!
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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spillz606 wrote:
SW1 didn't really give me anything that blew my mind, in all honesty, I haven't even sleeved all of it and I've had it a week after it released. SW2 is looking to be the same so far. With that being said, I'll keep on buying whatever they churn out (marvel wise) Because this is my favorite game of all time! I've been playing it since day 1 and no matter how many cards I have, all I want is more!


I have to agree with this.

I have no interest in the other legendary products like Alien or Predator. I think they'll fade out eventually since their brands can't be sustained for long. How many expansions could they possibly release for that?

I'll buy Legendary Marvel no matter what (other than the 3d cards - I refuse to buy random cards).

But in all honesty, the last expansions were a let down. Fear Itself was probably my least favorite of the smaller expansions and Secret Wars 1 was my least favorite of the bigger expansions.

Nothing in it totally blew me away like the stuff in the other expansions. There are some highlights like Uru Weapons or playing as the mastermind (haven't had a chance to try yet, but the idea looks great)

But, the new heroes mechanics is bit "meh", too many repeated characters (as heroes or villains) and even their mechanics are too similar etc
It almost feels like they're running out of ideas.

And now the new expansion after Secret Wars is going to be Captain America? /sigh

It's not like we're really lacking a selection of heroes or villains. I haven't even bothered counting how much of the characters in the Marvel Wiki content we have now, but I'm guessing we're probably still in a single digit area.
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Adelin Dumitru
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GrandMasterFox wrote:

It's not like we're really lacking a selection of heroes or villains. I haven't even bothered counting how much of the characters in the Marvel Wiki content we have now, but I'm guessing we're probably still in a single digit area.


um...NO
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John Cocktosen
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I don't worry about bloating all that much. As with eating, moderation prevents bloating. Eat and play in moderation and you'll be fine. Meaning, not everything on the menu has to be ordered. Knowing you have the option is the beautiful thing.

Secret Wars has been fun for me because I've read the entire series so getting heroes from the comic event is pretty cool. If someone hasn't read it then I can see where a disconnect would occur.

Having 100 more heroes I don't think would damage the game. Fans of the comics can piece together classic confrontations. For those that like to randomize maybe the more heroes the better. I don't see any of that as a problem. I see mechanics being a larger issue moving forward. I dunno, I think new heroes help the flavor of the game, new mechanics move it forward.

I'm a completionist so I have a biased opinion on this. The more the better. Bring it all on. There has been no jump the shark moment for me yet. This game continues to hold me in its grips.

Edit: didn't mean to hit submit
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Robert Clevidence
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DrRosenRosen wrote:
As with eating, moderation prevents bloating. Eat and play in moderation and you'll be fine. Meaning, not everything on the menu has to be ordered.


I don't...This doesn't...Your profile says you're American, but these words... So confusing...
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Adam Steele
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This is one reason why Legendary is far better than Cryptozoic's deck building game. Although schemes may vary things a bit, for the most part every game is going to have the same amount of content. It's up to the players to choose just what that content is. Like with Dominion, there is a huge amount of options for the game, but very few of them are needed at any given time. Sure, the game will still be good quality if it stopped now. That doesn't mean more options makes it worse. There's still plenty of characters, heroes and villains, that we want to play.
The only thing that would concern me is more universally-available cards. Mixing sets together, we currently have S.H.I.E.L.D. Officers, Madame Hydra, New Recruits, & Sidekicks. Of course, if you're just using one side, you only get two of those, which isn't so bad.
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Adelin Dumitru
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DrRosenRosen wrote:
I don't worry about bloating all that much. As with eating, moderation prevents bloating. Eat and play in moderation and you'll be fine. Meaning, not everything on the menu has to be ordered. Knowing you have the option is the beautiful thing.

Secret Wars has been fun for me because I've read the entire series so getting heroes from the comic event is pretty cool. If someone hasn't read it then I can see where a disconnect would occur.

Having 100 more heroes I don't think would damage the game. Fans of the comics can piece together classic confrontations. For those that like to randomize maybe the more heroes the better. I don't see any of that as a problem. I see mechanics being a larger issue moving forward. I dunno, I think new heroes help the flavor of the game, new mechanics move it forward.

I'm a completionist so I have a biased opinion on this. The more the better. Bring it all on. There has been no jump the shark moment for me yet. This game continues to hold me in its grips.

Edit: didn't mean to hit submit


Well said!
You clarified to me one aspect that had been bothering me for a while until I read your comment - the fact that, besides some rule clarifications (Chameleon referenced in the Fear Itself rulebook), there are few connections between expansions. Take shards - they cannot include anymore a character that allows you to gain cost as long as there might be some people (Weird people, i know!) that do not have the Guardians of the Galaxy expansion.
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Davinia
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I'm not feeling the bloat. There are thousands of characters and hundreds of storylines just waiting to be turned into schemes.

Secret Wars is good not amazing but I'm more excited about vol 2 than 1 and after this (or maybe Captain America) I will slow down my expansion buying this year I got everything and it feels like we haven't even touched the surface. So we're going to focus on playing it rather than just buying it.
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Adelin Dumitru
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32vini2 wrote:
I'm not feeling the bloat. There are thousands of characters and hundreds of storylines just waiting to be turned into schemes.

Secret Wars is good not amazing but I'm more excited about vol 2 than 1 and after this (or maybe Captain America) I will slow down my expansion buying this year I got everything and it feels like we haven't even touched the surface. So we're going to focus on playing it rather than just buying it.


From the looks of it Secret Wars volume 2 might be the best expansion so far, though from the previews we might have a distorted view. The Cap expansion sounds great, and the Civil War expansion is already a must-have. I will continue to buy all expansions because UD has done such a great job with this game that I cannot imagine ever stopping from playing it, although now I do not play it as often as I used to. It's not as if I had lots of money to spare (and the game here in Romania is more expansive than in the US - a small box expansion costs around 23 dollars, I was lucky to buy on the "Romanian" Black Friday - i.e. last week- the Fear Itself expansion with the equivalent of 18 dollars; Big Box expansions cost 45 dollars each, and the Villains box cost 66 dollars). Nonetheless, it is a solid investment and i have not regretted even once buying all the expansions.

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Michael Green
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People were talking on here about Keyword overload with new expansions recently too. Like others said, I think expansions for this game just give more variety and more options. Any single game though will still only have a limited number of elements in it, certain number of heroes, villains etc, so while you might own as many expansions as you like, you're never going to be cramming all that diverse content into one game. A single game will always stay relatively manageable and simple.
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tom tom
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Most played game in our collection. The variety of 'schemes' are what keep each game interesting and unique. The weekly challenges posted on BGG are fantastic too. I haven't read comics in 20 years, have no clue who most of the characters are, yet totally enjoy the playing experience. I say keep the new expansions coming, I will buy every one.
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Ryan N

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I believe the core marvel game is still at least six to eight expansions away from saturation. My main point of frustration is that so many niche characters are getting the spotlight lately. I know it is impossible to satisfy everyone's tastes and an argument can be made in favor of saving some of the most popular characters to seed into some of the latter expansions. But when I look at the character lineup in Fear Itself, it almost feels like someone was actively trying to kill off interest in future villain expansions. From what I have seen so far with the character lineup in secret wars volume 2, I find myself wishing they had stopped after volume 1 and put the resources towards some other expansion product with broader appeal. That said, the first three expansions were solid and I look forward to the next two (after secret wars 2).
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Jason Ling
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I've looked at everyones posts and you've all brought up good points, I'd just like to clarify my own.

I still love the sets that come out and plan on getting them. I'm just worried about any new people who might want to start playing. some people in this thread have mentioned they might call it quits after this, and that's fine for them. but as people drop off, you need new players to start playing right?

I'm worried a new player, once they realized just how much there was might get discouraged. I've tried to get some people interested. Everyone who I got to play liked the game, none have ever picked it up. I wonder if the catalog of expansions might scare new players away. "I have to buy what? nah, I'll just play when he shows up."

Not to mention other issues that arise over time the more stuff you have, storage, transporting, etc. My concern is recognising this, and I just hope we can find a solution to what might become a problem. Then again perhaps I'm just a pessimist? Only time will tell.
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Magic has been producing new sets since 1993.

Dominion, the first deck-building game, published another expansion this year.
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Adam Steele
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link11020 wrote:
I've looked at everyones posts and you've all brought up good points, I'd just like to clarify my own.

I still love the sets that come out and plan on getting them. I'm just worried about any new people who might want to start playing. some people in this thread have mentioned they might call it quits after this, and that's fine for them. but as people drop off, you need new players to start playing right?

I'm worried a new player, once they realized just how much there was might get discouraged. I've tried to get some people interested. Everyone who I got to play liked the game, none have ever picked it up. I wonder if the catalog of expansions might scare new players away. "I have to buy what? nah, I'll just play when he shows up."

Not to mention other issues that arise over time the more stuff you have, storage, transporting, etc. My concern is recognising this, and I just hope we can find a solution to what might become a problem. Then again perhaps I'm just a pessimist? Only time will tell.


This is a fair point, and why sets get their own keywords. Each set should stand on its own, so you don't have to get all the sets to get the full experience. Personally, I like the model of Fantastic 4 & Paint the Town Red. Dedicate the set to a specific set of allies and their enemies. That way fans of that franchise can really have a game of their favorites.
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John Cocktosen
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I actually have the exact opposite experience than you and your buddies. A guy in our gaming group introduced a bunch of us to Legendary and three of us went out and bought the game. Two of us have gotten everything and the other trailed off a while ago. Our two stories are probably in line with what happens not only in this game, but with any game involving expansions is my guess.

Personally I don't think that's an issue. I think that is something that goes on with games that have long runs. At some point it may become too daunting for someone to buy in, for others not so much. Just depends on the person and where they stand financially and if they do get it will they get their money's worth in the long run. Decisions that should go into buying into a popular game with expansions. I guess I don't see that as being an inherently bad thing. Just kinda seems like the natural way in the world of board gaming. You're lucky if you got in on it early, decisions to make if not. Your buddies just so happened to choose to play yours instead

All of which falls in line with what some people are saying here - one can get in on Legendary with no expansions, maybe/strongly suggest Dark City, and be perfectly content. Pick and choose what they want/or not want thereafter.

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