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Subject: Can it be played without church / faith? rss

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Adam McLean
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I have been going back and forth with this game whether to get it or not. I have checked out the message boards and descriptions and for the most part it seems like a game that would interest me or the group I play with. Definitely the theme fits the games our group leans toward.

However, after going over everything, I do not think that I like the Head of Church or faith tokens, or how they are implemented. I do not like when a game allows players to decide where and to whom a certain random act occurs. I do not mind random acts affecting the game as long as they don't dominate, but the aspect of a player choosing who gets affected by it and then the paying of "faith" to cancel may just ruin the experience for me.

Is it possible just to remove that feature from the game?
 
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Brad Miller
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It's pretty intertwined with a alot of the mechanics, so I don't really think you could do that. And I wouldn't say that it is a random act. You target the player who is winning, or who is in your way, or whoever won't give you some payola. Or, if you don't have any faith, you have to eat the card. But taking out one of the two "currencies" in the game, as well as one-third of the action card result slots, just wouldn't work.
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Richard Young
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I have to agree that removing the HoC and Faith tokens would alter the game in a dramatic way. However, the original game didn't have the device and you could theoretically remove all the action and event cards which make reference to them. I would advise that you play the game a few times before going to that length as I'm sure you would find that all the elements work together very well. Give it a try!
 
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David
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Faith is an important part of the game. Blessing Expeditions, using faith to cancel bad shit happening to you, using it to not have to pay the coin cost for routed cities, it's got tons of uses.

And the cards themselves aren't all that random. It's sometimes random as to whether they'll actually do something that will effect someone (like a "All your nobles that are currently dead can bever come back" card could potentially have no ill effects, or it could be devestating. This card doesn't actually exist fyi, just an exmaple.). But the colour on the back is always right. Red = bad, green = good, pruple = something efecting everyone in some way.

Usually, their good ways to make friends and enemies and take bribes. Nothing like forcing people to bribe you to avoid a nasty card or to get a good one. It's all part of the game, and it wouldn't be the same without it. It'd be liek removing the assembly (which is the best part of the whole game in my groups opinion).
 
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Aaron Cappocchi
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Perhaps the most important thing is that your "Serve The Church" action card is your wild action (i.e. the only one that can be discarded to any pile), and trigger a special action phase - Taxation/Assembly/Wages - sooner, plus get back your other cards that are locked up in that discard pile.

This would remove 1 of your 6 card choices and badly break the discard/phase triggering mechanism which is integral to the game.
 
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Russ Fade
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I don't think the random acts of the church "dominate" our games. Most of us prepare for it by trying to always sit on a couple of faith tokens so we can cancel anything majorly bad. I do recommend not allowing a red event card to be on the top of the deck at the start of the game before people have had a chance to build a "faith cushion" . . . that is the one time that I feel the church cards can unfairly balance the game against someone.

I once lost an entire army in the first round to a red event card . . . that's not something you can recover from against competent opponents.

Try playing with the church. But dont' start the game with a red card on top.

 
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David
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agentzen wrote:
Perhaps the most important thing is that your "Serve The Church" action card is your wild action (i.e. the only one that can be discarded to any pile), and trigger a special action phase - Taxation/Assembly/Wages - sooner, plus get back your other cards that are locked up in that discard pile.

This would remove 1 of your 6 card choices and badly break the discard/phase triggering mechanism which is integral to the game.


Ohh, forgot all about this too. This is one of THE most important strategies to pick up on. I won a game this way by forcing a wages phase right after my chief opponent had just spent a bunch of his money on drafting mercenaries. He couldn't hold on to them all and I rolled over his now meager forces.

Yet another reason why faith is so integral to the game.
 
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Colin Hunter
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yes I agree. Faith is crucial to the mechanics of the game. In many way the assembly is less important. However I guess the head of the church is pretty minor, I mean blessing expeditions and deciding who gets the event is important, but hardly a crucial mechanic, when compared with the ability to play serve the church to any pile (it is an essential strategic element to the game).
 
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