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Subject: ambitious delivery? rss

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Peter Rabinowitz
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Game looks neat. Reviews are positive. First time game producer making a big box game with cards and tiles and minis... in 5 months?!? April 2017 would be ambitious. What am I missing?
 
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Matt Simpson
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kc2dpt wrote:
Game looks neat. Reviews are positive. First time game producer making a big box game with cards and tiles and minis... in 5 months?!? April 2017 would be ambitious. What am I missing?


It does seem ambitious. It may be possible that since they have financial backing they will start mini manufacturing the day the campaign ends (they don't have to wait for KS funds to clear like a smaller publisher.) Beyond that they shouldn't need much play testing, it seems like all their scenarios were pretty ready to go or should be easy to integrate.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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Is all the art and text ready to go to the printer?
Is all the playtesting completed?
I don't see anything on the KS page which says they are.

They're definately going to go back and forth a few times on...
getting the necessary files ready for the manufacturers.
fixing typos and color fixes on printed materials.
tweaking the mini sculpts.

They stand a non-trivial chance of having to switch manufacturers due to price or materials or service, since they have zero experience with their vendors.

Chinese New Year is in February and that shuts everything down.

Then, everything needs to be shipped to a central location to be boxed up, then shipped overseas on a slow boat, then sit in customs.
 
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Vesuvius Media
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We can only address to your fears as "challenge accepted". We are new in this industry but we are also coming with a set of rules for us and all our partners and vendors. Fulfilling campaigns on time is one of them.
So is it ambitious or well scheduled? You will have to wait till April 2016.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts
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Thanee
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For the record, I do not care, if a game comes later than "promised" (it is not really a promise, more an estimate, so...), as long as it isn't taking ridiculous proportions (like a year or three).

And, as always, quality over making delivery goals!

It's a good thing, obviously, when your planning was good and you can deliver on time... but even if delays happen that take you beyond your planned buffers, it still does not warrant rushing the process (not saying, that you might end up doing so, just a general thought).

Anyways, good to see the campaign is taking up a bit of speed now during the final hours.

Bye
Thanee
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Vesuvius Media
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Quality is coming always first. We shall not sacrifice quality over deadlines but we have put these deadlines along with our vendors and manufacturers. So we will work hard to keep our timetable.

Now let me share with you where we stand:
Game Design: Playtesting with our beta testing groups all 10 scenarios
Graphics: We are making changes but we should finish them by the end of the year
Printing: We have already made sample prints and we have "fixed" color printings, paper quality and box quality.
Various Components: Ordered

Now we are going to use 2 teams about Rules Proofing and Text Proofing when we finalize Rulebook and the various sets of card. I remind you that the current Rulebook is a beta rulebook and even layout is going to change.

We are a community driven company. We listen to our community and work with them. You will have status reports and we will in contact after game delivery through our boardgamecrafter service.

Stay tuned!
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Duncan Idaho
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Thanee wrote:
For the record, I do not care, if a game comes later than "promised" (it is not really a promise, more an estimate, so...), as long as it isn't taking ridiculous proportions (like a year or three).


For me, the issue is that someone who has a super ambitious deadline that ends up being unrealistic is also probably not so good at project management. They also probably don't realize all the problems that could crop up in between collecting money and delivering the goods, which means they haven't thought through solutions to them, and they probably won't handle those "wrenches in the works" well.

I don't know if that's going on here, as I haven't looked into this project very much (here now to make a final decision). But the short timeframe does raise red flags, and I've seen many KS that looked good run into issues as soon as an inexperienced publisher hits their first snag and doesn't recover.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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Same thing here. Was really intrigued by the pitch, but the completely unrealistic timeframe is a huge red flag for all the same reasons you mentioned. I was hoping by bringing it up here I'd get a response that would put my mind at ease.

Game Design: playtesting isn't finished (bad)
Graphics: not finished (bad)
Printing: colors, paper quality and box quality sampled (good)
Various Components: ordered... so minis have already been sampled and approved and are being produced? Before funding? That's odd, but would be a major hurdle out of the way if true.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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I have only ever seen one company deliver in this kind of timeframe. The game was only a deck of cards, it was completely finished and ready to go to the printer before the KS even started, the publisher and the printer were both located in the same country, and (perhaps most important) both had worked together before on numerous projects. I've never seen a board game of this complexity fulfill in less than a year, and that's from experienced companies.
 
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Vesuvius Media
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Thank your for your comments
When we refer to various components we are not talking about miniatures but about dice, glass stones, crystals, cubes... etc.
Quote:
Game Design: playtesting isn't finished (bad)
Graphics: not finished (bad)

Game Design has finished. Scenarios are playtested for feeling, fluff and balancing (because it is different to have a balanced game and another to feel balanced and fair)
Graphics can and will constantly change till the end (printing) in order to meet expectations.

No mold is ready yet but its time we reached a KS milestone we activated the appropriate procedures (so yes we ordered the first molds etc)

Quote:
For me, the issue is that someone who has a super ambitious deadline that ends up being unrealistic is also probably not so good at project management.

This is not our first project and definitely not the most difficult we have dealt with. We acknowledge that will shall deal with new issues for first time but we believe that we have take all necessary precautions to avoid stalling.

Quote:
But the short timeframe does raise red flags, and I've seen many KS that looked good run into issues as soon as an inexperienced publisher hits their first snag and doesn't recover.


We are a community driven company. Delivering what we said and when we said is how we work.

Quote:
the publisher and the printer were both located in the same country, and (perhaps most important) both had worked together before on numerous projects.


Close enough.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. By addressing them we can only become better and fulfill what we all expect, a very good boardgame.
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Peter Rabinowitz
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Are you saying you're manufacturing in Canada and not China? That would be noteworthy.
 
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Vesuvius Media
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We are not manufacturing in China. We are manufacturing in Europe.

P.S. And now I can understand your "red flags". We are not saying that China productions are of less quality. We have seen impressive works from certain manufactures. But we have been warned (and I know from personal experience that China Productions demand extra time due to shipping and other delays that might arise). So we decided to produce in Europe.
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Stephan Beal
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kc2dpt wrote:
tweaking the mini sculpts.


IIRC the game has a total of 5 minis models, including the 4 boss minis. The player ships are all identical. There's unlikely to be much time spent tweaking the minis.

 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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I am not overly worried about ambitious timelines, although it hardly ever comes true.
If there is one thing I am slightly wondering about is the coop gameplay, as it is always much harder to balance than pvp.

Vesuvius Media wrote:
We are not manufacturing in China. We are manufacturing in Europe.

I wonder (as Euro backer) if everything will be produced in Europe - and subsequently will also being shipped from Europe?
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Vesuvius Media
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Hello Teowulff, you are right to worry on Co-op balancing since this is a tricky part. But we are working the game about 18 months now and it is solid and balanced and "feels" fair.

Regarding your second question, the game will be shipped from Europe (that is the current plan but we also have alternatives since we want to keep our "ambitious" timeline.
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Sergio Perez
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Isn't it interesting that so many projects miss their KS due dates that being considerably late is considered the norm? I would be surprised if 25% of what I backed actually arrived within 3 months of the initial projected date. These guys seem to be on track, and they come under intense scrutiny. I, for one, applaud their dedication to producing their project within the stated timeframe. I wish other project designers were either 1) more realistic and/or honest with their due date projections or 2) more serious about actually achieving their deadline.


*edit for typo
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Trueflight Silverwing
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2-3 week delay is acceptable to me (considering most big companies usually miss theirs by 2-3 months). They probably wouldn't have even missed their projected dates if they had not waited to get everything shipped out to everyone at the same time (which to be honest was fair). I just can't wait to get mine and get playing.
 
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Alan Castree
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So, I thought this game's estimated delivery was June (or July). Looks like everything is on track. Shipping from the printers does take a while though, but shouldn't be too far from the estimated date. Good job guys
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Peter Rabinowitz
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Quote:
I thought this game's estimated delivery was June (or July).

It was April. If they do in fact get this shipped by May 15th, that would be really impressive. The vast majority of board-game kickstarters don't do as well as this.

I'll be happy to see I was proven wrong on this.
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Stephan Beal
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kc2dpt wrote:
Quote:
I thought this game's estimated delivery was June (or July).

It was April. If they do in fact get this shipped by May 15th, that would be really impressive. The vast majority of board-game kickstarters don't do as well as this.


i've backed many boardgames on KS and am still waiting on half of them a year later. e.g. Conan will be more than a year late when/if it arrives at the end of the year. A 6-8 week delay is microscopic in KS terms, and anyone who's concerned about that apparently isn't yet used to Kickstarting.
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Vesuvius Media
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We are getting closer to our deadlines. Soon you will have news on our progress. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Vesuvius Media wrote:
Although the games are ready, they are stuck in our Chinese manufacturer's warehouse waiting for C-Certificate approval. We need this to legally sell in Europe.

They tell us the paperwork will be done by April 6 and then the boxes will be shipped to the final packaging and distribution center in Europe (where the miniatures were produced).

They are scheduled to arrive in Europe on May 7 and shipping to you is expected to start May 15!

Is this still the current timeline?

And since the game is produced in Europe ("We are not manufacturing in China. We are manufacturing in Europe."), what has a Chinese manufacturer's warehouse to do with it?
Or are only the miniatures produced in Europe and all the cardwork in China?

*confused* goo
 
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Vesuvius Media
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Hello Thaddeus, you are right to be confused. The entire project was to be produced in Europe but due to problems with the manufacturer that we are going to explain soon we were forced (as there was no other alternative in Europe at such short notice and that wouldn't lead the project to a 6 months delay) to produce cardwork in China. We were lucky enough and we found a manufacturer that we shall work again with in future projects. Miniatures and fulfillment will take place in Europe.

We have no changes on the timeline you refer to. We are on schedule.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Vesuvius Media wrote:

Centauri Saga Shipped!
It is with great pleasure that we announce... shipping of Centauri Saga has started!
Keep an eye on your mailbox as your copy should arrive in the next few weeks!



... where was this picture taken, if I may ask? cool
 
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Vesuvius Media
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That was taken to our hub in Athens, Greece.
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