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1841» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on Treatment when no Ferdinandea Succession rss

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Mark Van Loon
United States
New York
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The following four questions assume that there is a valid route connecting Milano and Venezia, that the Ferdinandea Succession does not occur, and that the game is in phase four.

(a) 3.3.4, bullet 2: Is it legal in phase four to start a corporation with a token inside the yellow border of Austria? [Rule 3.3.4 seems to indicate that it is not legal.]

(b) 3.3.4: Is it legal for the IRSFF to start corporation B with all or corporations B's tokens outside the yellow border of Austria?

(c) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma without crossing the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would be legal.]

(d) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma which does cross the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would not be legal. However, the IRSFF is actually operating in both countries.]
 
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Christian Becker
Germany
Herne
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Hi Mark,

I just played my first game of 1841 yesterday so I can now answer your questions. Of course, they are not very reliable with only one game played...
Maybe you should direct your question to the 18xx Yahoo group. Some of the active designers and publishers would read your questions there.
Anyway, here are my two cents:

Quote:
(a) 3.3.4, bullet 2: Is it legal in phase four to start a corporation with a token inside the yellow border of Austria? [Rule 3.3.4 seems to indicate that it is not legal.]


Rule 4.6.3 says that from the first 4 train on corporations may be started in Austria. Mentioning the Ferdinandea Secession in 3.3.4 may have mislead you.

Quote:

(b) 3.3.4: Is it legal for the IRSFF to start corporation B with all of corporations B's tokens outside the yellow border of Austria?


There is nothing in the rules that explicitely prohibits it so I would say yes.
Still, the IRSFF cannot buy one of B's tokens and vice versa.

Quote:

(c) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma without crossing the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would be legal.]

I think the surviving IRSFF is the one big excemption from the token laying rule in 4.6.2. Since it already has tokens on both sides of the border there is no reason not to allow it laying additional tokens on both sides.

Quote:

(d) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma which does cross the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would not be legal. However, the IRSFF is actually operating in both countries.]


Tricky question. My feeling would say yes because the way the track is built shouldn't affect the token laying rule.

I hope this helped a bit.
Christian
 
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Devin Smith
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MarkTheGamer wrote:
The following four questions assume that there is a valid route connecting Milano and Venezia, that the Ferdinandea Succession does not occur, and that the game is in phase four.

Ok then.
MarkTheGamer wrote:

(a) 3.3.4, bullet 2: Is it legal in phase four to start a corporation with a token inside the yellow border of Austria? [Rule 3.3.4 seems to indicate that it is not legal.]

As said by beckerc, you can start a company anywhere on the map (except Swiss territory) in phase four, so this is fine. Note, however, that you can't start a major partially inside and partially outside Austria, as then its two bases would be separated by an active border (3.3.4).
Quote:

(b) 3.3.4: Is it legal for the IRSFF to start corporation B with all or corporations B's tokens outside the yellow border of Austria?

YES. Unequivocally. You can even buy its tokens assuming you can trace a route there from an IRSFF token outside of Austria.

Quote:

(c) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma without crossing the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would be legal.]

Correct. You have to be able to trace a route from one of your tokens to where you want to place one without crossing an active border, so you're good.
Quote:

(d) 4.2: Assume that the IRSFF has a valid route from Milano to Parma which does cross the yellow Austrian border. May the IRSFF lay a token in Parma? [The token laying rule 4.2 seems to indicate that this would not be legal. However, the IRSFF is actually operating in both countries.]

No never ever. You must have some route from one of your tokens to where you want to lay a token that does not cross an active border: not even if it does it twice.


Note that I'm disagreeing with beckerc on b,c, and d. I think he misinterpreted b, but I'm actively disagreeing with c and d.
 
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