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Subject: Adding supports rss

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NACHO FERNANDEZ
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Are all supports added to all Fronts when trying to enter Germany or Japan?

Example:
- The Allied Western Front is attacking Germany with 4 offensive supports
- The Eastern Soviet Front is attacking Germany with 5 Offensive Supports

The German Armies are splitting evenly betwen the two Fronts (rule 7.72.4) but what about the supports, are all Fronts attacking with 9 supports or every Front must be assigned supports?








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B C Z
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I believe that each of the fronts uses only supports assigned to it. East and West Fronts on Germany would not add together (for example).
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Barry Miller
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Agree with the above. Also, the only time that you must provide Offensive Support to a specific front is when a Directed Offensive marker is placed. In that case, two Offensive Support markers must be placed (as able) where the Directed Offensive marker is located. After that, Offensive Support markers can be placed in the entry space of any front.


So for your example, the support markers for both the Western and Eastern fronts into Germany can be placed as desired. Except of course if there were Directed Offensive markers there - then they get priority. Also, each front has it's own Support markers, so they would be accounted for separately, as mentioned above.

Reference:
Pg 12, sections 6.5 and 6.7

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NACHO FERNANDEZ
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But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.
 
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Wendell
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MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.


It's been clarified that if multiple fronts are trying to enter Germany (or Japan) at the same time, they are conducted as separate attacks. So you could have an East and West Front attack vs. Germany, and theoretically up to FOUR fronts separately but simultaneously attacking Japan.
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Barry Miller
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MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.

Ah, OK, I see where the confusion is now (and yes, it can be confusing)... you're seeing the "Germany" space as one integral [entry] space shared by both fronts. However, it's not really shared.

While it's true that the "Germany" space is the final space for the Western front and it is also the final space for the Eastern front (3.22 & 7.52), both fronts don't share the Germany space. IOW, despite Germany (and Japan) being one space on the board, if multiple fronts are advancing then each front is handled separately. That's the can-be-confusing part.

I agree that the Rulebook doesn't really make this concept clear when it comes to placing Offensive Support markers. But it can nonetheless be inferred. Here are some references from the rules to illustrate this "same but separate" concept:

The Play Note on page 16, found during the Axis Reserve placement step, says that in the event that Germany is about to be entered by both fronts, to discriminate which reserves are opposing which front.
This implies that the "Germany" space must be split in half when dealing with both fronts at the same time. The left half of the box deals with the Western front and the right half with the Eastern front.

Here's another rule that reinforces the notion that both fronts are fought separately:
7.72.4: "If multiple fronts are trying to advance into Germany or Japan, split the forces evenly to oppose each Front..."

Hope that helps.



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Mark Herman
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wifwendell wrote:
MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.


It's been clarified that if multiple fronts are trying to enter Germany (or Japan) at the same time, they are conducted as separate attacks. So you could have an East and West Front attack vs. Germany, and theoretically up to FOUR fronts separately but simultaneously attacking Japan.


As exhibit one I would enter into evidence 7.72.4

If multiple Fronts are trying to advance into Germany or Japan, split the forces evenly to oppose each Front with any odd number determined randomly.

Is there any confusion over this rule?
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NACHO FERNANDEZ
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MarkHerman wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.


It's been clarified that if multiple fronts are trying to enter Germany (or Japan) at the same time, they are conducted as separate attacks. So you could have an East and West Front attack vs. Germany, and theoretically up to FOUR fronts separately but simultaneously attacking Japan.


As exhibit one I would enter into evidence 7.72.4

If multiple Fronts are trying to advance into Germany or Japan, split the forces evenly to oppose each Front with any odd number determined randomly.

Is there any confusion over this rule?


Yes, Mark. The rule states only to manage the defender not the atacker...
 
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Mark Herman
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MACNACH wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.


It's been clarified that if multiple fronts are trying to enter Germany (or Japan) at the same time, they are conducted as separate attacks. So you could have an East and West Front attack vs. Germany, and theoretically up to FOUR fronts separately but simultaneously attacking Japan.


As exhibit one I would enter into evidence 7.72.4

If multiple Fronts are trying to advance into Germany or Japan, split the forces evenly to oppose each Front with any odd number determined randomly.

Is there any confusion over this rule?


Yes, Mark. The rule states only to manage the defender not the atacker...


Not near a rule book but the rules state that every conference every front must advance if possible. That is the rule you are looking for.
 
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NACHO FERNANDEZ
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MarkHerman wrote:
MACNACH wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
MACNACH wrote:
But 7.72.2 says: "EACH military offensive support in the entry space (it doesn't specify whom belongs the offensive to) adds two to the Front's strength.


It's been clarified that if multiple fronts are trying to enter Germany (or Japan) at the same time, they are conducted as separate attacks. So you could have an East and West Front attack vs. Germany, and theoretically up to FOUR fronts separately but simultaneously attacking Japan.


As exhibit one I would enter into evidence 7.72.4

If multiple Fronts are trying to advance into Germany or Japan, split the forces evenly to oppose each Front with any odd number determined randomly.

Is there any confusion over this rule?


Yes, Mark. The rule states only to manage the defender not the atacker...


Not near a rule book but the rules state that every conference every front must advance if possible. That is the rule you are looking for.


The rules doesn't have reference to this threat. Just says split the defender.
You may put offensive support to any space, not front. Is a coop game and the ultimate goal is to surrender the axis. So, Off. suport should be shared...
But if the majority of you say to separate supports...
 
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Barry Miller
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Nacho,

If I can be bold and take the liberty to summarize what I think you're asking...

- Both Western & Eastern fronts are advancing into Germany on the same turn
- The Western Front is providing 4 Offensive Support markers for its advance
- The Eastern Front is providing 5 Offensive Support markers for its advance
- As the 9 Offensive Support markers are going to end up in the Germany space, can they be shared by both fronts?

(You actually asked your question in the OP with fewer words, but somehow the gist of your question has gotten lost, so hope I did it justice with the summary above).

Edit: The short answer is, "No", as has also been provided in many posts above.

And quite frankly, I thought I provided enough info to answer your question in my latest post above, which Mark confirmed in his post immediately following that. Essentially, you must not consider Germany as a shared space. Think of that space as having a left half and a right half. All the Offensive support markers and Axis Reserve markers for each front are put in their respective half, to be applied to that front only (i.e., left half for Western front, and right half for Eastern front).

It is this concept which I was trying to explain, and support, with references in my earlier post. Which again, Mark confirmed just after that (I think he and I were writing our responses at the same time).



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Quote:
Is a coop game and the ultimate goal is to surrender the axis. So, Off. suport should be shared...


'A Front successfully advances on a roll of a ten-sided die less than or equal to the Front's modified strength.'

Each Front rolls separately. Each Front advances separately. Each Front is modified separately.

A Front only advances by rolling against that Front's modified strength. There is no provision whatsoever in the rules for multiple Fronts to ever combine their strength.

COWTRA: Concentrate On What The Rules Allow.
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NACHO FERNANDEZ
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Thanks a lot, Barry
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