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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » General

Subject: CC vs Tide of Iron rss

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Rob Rob
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Has anyone played both? If so, what are your thoughts?
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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Tide of Iron isn't even out yet and FFG just released the rules.
 
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Mark Bigney
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I believe that that question is like asking people to compare apples and a fruit yet to be released.
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Cap'n Howdy
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The boxes are different sizes.
 
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Cap'n Howdy
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The boxes are different sizes.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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Ummm...one has tanks. The other doesn't.
 
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Glen Cote
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RPardoe wrote:
Ummm...one has tanks. The other doesn't.


And never bloody will!!!
 
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Richard Irving
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Barkam wrote:
Tide of Iron isn't even out yet and FFG just released the rules.


I've quickly read the rules to ToI and they seem about as complex as CC:E, The ToI rulebook is 48 pages (with no scenarios) twice as many as CC:E, but are a lot of illustrations and examples. But some of the elements seemed particularly unrealistic.

The game uses a 4 figure base which they call a "squad". Typically a squad refers to 10-12 men in WW2 games, so I don't know for sure if 1 figure=1 man. But mortar and machine guns take up 2 spots on the squad base, and since those types of weapons were usually operated by two men which maybe means 1 figure does equal 1 man!

Of the figures seem to look nice. But like all figure games, they can't hold as much information. Even though there is way to indicate some special units (like Engineers) with chit holder ont he base, there doesn't seem to be the variety of units that you find in CC--especially in things like difference between the Germans and American soldier (ToI currently only has those two nationalities though others are planned in explansions.) or multiple quality levels, etc.

The combat system is multi die hit system where you remove figures for each hit earned (IOW similar to M'44), but there are 2 more sophisticated elements: Range determine the numbered need on each attack die to hit (close (adjecent): 4,5,6; Up to range stat: 5,6; Up 2x range stat: 6) and a defense roll with the number of dice based on the cover or armor value: each 5 or 6 cancels one hit.

Each action round, you activate 3 units (though I think that may vary in different scenarios), then your opponen and back and forth both sides pass--each unit can only be ordered once per game turn. Usually a pass occurs when all of the units are ordered. Most of the actions seem a bit similar to CC's: move, concentrated fire, move and fire (which lower MP allowance and firepower), assault, special actions (like Engineer units removing mines.) Apparently, you cannot pass or order fewer units in an action round--hoping for your opponent to commit before making your action. You end up committing to no action for turn.

One rule really bugs me: Op Fire units. (I hope I am not reading it incorrectly!) During an opponent's action round, the only units that can Op Fire when he moves are those units were desgnated as Op Fire on an earlier phase. That's almost like holding up a sign, "Mr. Enemy, I will shoot you if you come within range." That just really seems odd.

ToI still might be a fun game, but I can't see it replacing M'44 as a fast, fun, beer-and-pretzels wargame, nor replacing Up Front or CC:E as my preference for a more realistic WW2 infantry wargame.
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Rob Rob
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Thanks Richard for your thoughtful response. And thanks to the other five or so posters who even though they had nothing worthwhile to contribute felt compelled to add their two cents worth.
 
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Gregory Wong
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Quote:
One rule really bugs me: Op Fire units. (I hope I am not reading it incorrectly!) During an opponent's action round, the only units that can Op Fire when he moves are those units were desgnated as Op Fire on an earlier phase. That's almost like holding up a sign, "Mr. Enemy, I will shoot you if you come within range." That just really seems odd.


Actually, this rule is common in a lot of tactical level games. These games require you to place orders, and one such order may be to go into Overwatch. Only units in overwatch can execute Op Fire. It's not that unrealistic of a rule as it prevents you from moving and op firing in the same turn.
 
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