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Subject: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/graphics rss

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Jeff Michaud
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See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/149202 for official annoucement from Mayfair, or quoted below:
Nickcatan wrote:
The Age of Steam Begins Anew at Mayfair Games!

Martin Wallace and Mayfair Games have joined together to create a new edition of Warfrog's acclaimed Age of Steam game! Martin has been developing a new set of rules for this instant classic, to streamline play and simplify the learning process. But fans of the original Age of Steam need not worry: all the new components will be fully compatible with the earlier version. Mayfair's new edition will include beautiful new artwork and the top-quality components you have come to expect.

Though we can't yet reveal all the details of the new edition, here are a few glimpses at what is to come:
• Simplified banking rules allow players to take loans whenever they need them.
• The income reduction system has been banished, along with bidding for turn order.
• The track-building costs have been simplified, and a new city growth system has been added.

Martin's efforts will create a new Age of Steam experience that is just as challenging as the original game, but will be more welcoming to new players. It will play faster and have less between-turn downtime, while still bringing all the excitement of building a railroad empire right to your table!

Not since the Union Pacific met the Central Pacific at Promontory Summit has there been a more natural match for train game enthusiasts as Mayfair Games and Martin Wallace's Age of Steam!

-Nick
Mayfair Games, Inc.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or why you felt compelled to give yourself a thumbs up...



Edit: Not that I particularly mind the negative thumbs, but for the record (see the next post), JeffyJeff is incorrect in saying that I gave this a thumbs down, and, in any case, he has no way of knowing whether I did or not. As for the historical reason I posted the comment, I didn't appreciate that there would be value in having this post (and parallel, but nearly identical conversations) under both "Mayfair" and "Age of Steam". Clearly, I jumped the gun there. I still submit that it's self-serving and cheesy to give yourself a thumbs up, but that's another conversation.

Removing the post further down the page that reiterates this edit...
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slowcorner wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or why you felt compelled to give yourself a thumbs up...

???

You don't consider it news worthy for there to be an AoS forum thread about a new edition of a very popular game, a new edition that is not just a straight reprint, but could have substantial rule changes, as well as being published by a US publisher?

Regading thumbs... I always give myself thumbs up... the bigger question is why you felt compled to give my thread a thumbs down... you really should read the rules for giving thumbs down (it does pop up a link to the rules in the confirmation popup, ie http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BoardGameGeek_Rules).

Jeff
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
Sounds like they're turning it [more] into Railroad Tycoon, which might not be a bad thing. I liked some of the 'streamlined' mechanics in Railroad Tycoon but didn't like the cards (especially the useless tycoon cards) or the map.

Now we'll just have to see if the new rules will be available to the existing users AND if the original print(s) can be played with the new rules.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
So it's like an AoS expansion (rules tweaks to the original AoS), but it is intended to be a replacement for the original? Sigh. So like many other games (for example, Carcassone and it's different versions of farmer scoring), every game of AoS will have to be prefaced with: "which version are we playing?" Yes, yes...I know. We already do that when we decide which expansion map to play. But many of those expansion maps have rules based on 1st and 2nd edition AoS (which already causes some confusion)--that may now require FAQs in order to be interpreted in light of 3rd edition (?????) rules.

Complications aside.... We already have an Age of Steam light. It's called Railroad Tycoon.

Concerned AoS fan,
Valerie Putman
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slowcorner wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or why you felt compelled to give yourself a thumbs up...


I can see Slowcorner is coming from, but the point is that some people will not see the mayfair annoucement specifically for the game as they put it in their own section and nothing has been posted in the AoS section.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
It just sounds like we've got AoS with RT economic softness in the pipeline.

No worries, I'm sure my battered 1st edition will still suffice for years to come, and since all of the components for the new edition are apparently compatible, it won't be a big deal to pick one up if I eventually need to.

I do share some of Valerie's concerns that this is going to create "discussions" prior to play though, and I would rather see Mayfair call this game something else entirely so as to avoid them, but I can't blame them for wanting to cash in on the name of the original game.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
I am not an AoS fan in the least, but I am happy it's been picked up as currently it is difficult to find a copy of the current edition. If it comes with both rulebooks, then what is there to complain about?

Concerned AoS fans should be happy that the game keeps chuggin' along, I would think.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
gashlycrumb wrote:
I am not an AoS fan in the least, but I am happy it's been picked up as currently it is difficult to find a copy of the current edition. If it comes with both rulebooks, then what is there to complain about?

Concerned AoS fans should be happy that the game keeps chuggin' along, I would think.


It will not have the original Winsome ruleset, nor any other Winsome development work, like the Rust Belt map, point-to-point links, selected actions, etc. Essentially, it will be a different game, just as Railroad Tycoon was a different game. But I am sure that it will sell well with nice bits, just as Railroad Tycoon did.

The original Age of Steam will be reprinted in 2008, as I posted on Oct 24, 2006.

John
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
Yup, it's even more complicated then you thought. Now they're will be a NEW AoS. Same name, roughly same compoonents, different rules. Followed by apparently a reprint of the original with probably 3rd edition rules, just in case your not confused enough.

I'm glad my buddy bought RT instead. This sounds like it's gonna be a headache.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
John Bohrer wrote:
gashlycrumb wrote:
I am not an AoS fan in the least, but I am happy it's been picked up as currently it is difficult to find a copy of the current edition. If it comes with both rulebooks, then what is there to complain about?

Concerned AoS fans should be happy that the game keeps chuggin' along, I would think.


It will not have the original Winsome ruleset, nor any other Winsome development work, like the Rust Belt map, point-to-point links, selected actions, etc. Essentially, it will be a different game, just as Railroad Tycoon was a different game. But I am sure that it will sell well with nice bits, just as Railroad Tycoon did.

The original Age of Steam will be reprinted in 2008, as I posted on Oct 24, 2006.

John
Pittsburgh


Interesting! Yep, that does make things confusing.
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slowcorner wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or why you felt compelled to give yourself a thumbs up...


Giving a thumbs dow like that was uncalled for. As far as Valerie is concerned, I don't think taking a few seconds to say "What rules are we playing now?" being that big of a deal. In fact, people like her and the people she plays with will more then likely always play the advanced, original edition rules anyway so I doubt she'll even have to say it in the first place.

And yes, there IS Railroad Tycoon but the company went belly-up and it's getting expensive and hard to find. On top of that, a lot of people don't even have the SPACE to play it even if they wanted. On top of that, I'd bet a dollar to a donut Valerie will be one of the first people to buy a copy of it.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
John Bohrer wrote:
The original Age of Steam will be reprinted in 2008, as I posted on Oct 24, 2006.


So...to clarify...The Mayfair new "Age of Steam" will still be called "Age of Steam," and the Winsome 2008 version will also be called "Age of Steam?"

Will the Age of Steam from Winsome be 3rd edition rules, or maintain the 2nd edition rules, which seem to pretty much work perfectly?
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ixnay66 wrote:

As far as Valerie is concerned, I don't think taking a few seconds to say "What rules are we playing now?" being that big of a deal.


If the few seconds are spent, it's not a big deal. But if someone halfway through the second operating round wants to issue a stock and can't, because everyone else assumes first edition rules, it could get tense.

I actually like the idea of allowing issuing shares any time,e specially if you only get $4. I've not played this way, but it sounds good.

Fixed turn order is a step in wrong direction.

I'll reserve judgement on the city growth.


edit: fixed quote and added second preferences
 
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I am glad the current system is going to be supported and re-printed. AoS is one of my few 10-rated games.

I am also glad to see that a more approachable main-stream version will be produced. I enjoyed RRT, but not the map. I wonder if the new system will eventually have additional maps?


Hopefully the market will support both games.


Long Live AoS.




 
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
toulouse wrote:
John Bohrer wrote:
The original Age of Steam will be reprinted in 2008, as I posted on Oct 24, 2006.


So...to clarify...The Mayfair new "Age of Steam" will still be called "Age of Steam," and the Winsome 2008 version will also be called "Age of Steam?"

Will the Age of Steam from Winsome be 3rd edition rules, or maintain the 2nd edition rules, which seem to pretty much work perfectly?


The original Winsome rules will remain the same, of course, just as they were in the original Winsome edition and the 2nd Warfrog edition. We are not including the misprints and spelling errors found in the Warfrog first edition!

I have no involvement with the Mayfair game. I have no idea what Mayfair will end up calling their game. How many games are called 'Civilization'? But most boardgamers think of the original Avalon-Hill game.



John
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
ixnay66 wrote:
On top of that, I'd bet a dollar to a donut Valerie will be one of the first people to buy a copy of it.


Tee hee. We'll see.

And I guess if I can live with a few minutes of lively debate before every Union Pacific game (another game, along with AoS, that I rate a 10) about how to stack the share deck, I guess I can live with a few minutes of discussion before each AoS game.

So here are my thoughts on the possible changes:

Italy allows players to take shares at other times during the turn, but you only get $3 for those shares issued. You can also go above 15 shares on this map. But never fear, I'll still find a way to go bankrupt!

Railroad Tycoon changes the turn order bidding and I DON'T like it. I think that the turn order bidding and penalties (late turn order) for not keeping up with the Jonses is one of the brilliant mechanisms that makes Age of Steam a 10 for me.

Several expansions have changed goods growth (for example, Disco Inferno and Soul Train) and I have to admit that I prefer these expansions that don't use dice to determine goods growth. Some maps have automatic growth, some maps have almost no goods growth, others allow you to choose the production action and put goods directly on the map. I will be interested to see exactly how the Mayfair version handles goods growth and if any of the versions seen in the existing expansions are "borrowed."

Finally, as for the political mess of 2 Age of Steams (with 2 different BGG game IDs? Imagine the nightmare!), I wish we could live in a happy world where both Martin Wallace and John Bohrer (Winsome) and all the Warfrogs and everyone who has ever developed an expansion map could all be millionaires as a result of their contributions to the gaming world. They have all made me a very happy gamer.

Feel the AoS love,
Valerie
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
Wow, I'm surprised this is allowed. I would have thought when a publisher acquires the rights to a game, the designer is barred from having the same or substantially similar design published by another company. What would stop Winsome Games from publishing a new and improved version of, oh say, Settlers of Catan?

If I were Winsome, I'd be pretty pissed off. It's not like there's a giant market for Age of Steam. Now a rival publisher is going to release a substantially similar game under the same name and even advertise the fact that it can be played with the Winsome ruleset? That seems outrageous.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
statonv wrote:
We already have an Age of Steam light. It's called Railroad Tycoon.


Yes, but Railroad Tycoon had Winsome development. Mayfair's new game has no Winsome involvement, says John Bohrer. It will be interesting to see a railroad game by Martin Wallace without Mr. Bohrer's expertise.

I hope it is better than Mr. Wallace's Secret of the Tombs, Byzantium and Election USA.



 
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
vvrood wrote:
statonv wrote:
We already have an Age of Steam light. It's called Railroad Tycoon.


Yes, but Railroad Tycoon had Winsome development. Mayfair's new game has no Winsome involvement, says John Bohrer. It will be interesting to see a railroad game by Martin Wallace without Mr. Bohrer's expertise.





You may want to look through Mr. Wallace's ludography before you get all snipy. There's quite a few rail games in there that didn't involve Mr. Bohrer, his considerable contribution to Age of Steam notwithstanding.
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
slowcorner wrote:
vvrood wrote:
statonv wrote:
We already have an Age of Steam light. It's called Railroad Tycoon.


Yes, but Railroad Tycoon had Winsome development. Mayfair's new game has no Winsome involvement, says John Bohrer. It will be interesting to see a railroad game by Martin Wallace without Mr. Bohrer's expertise.


You may want to look through Mr. Wallace's ludography before you get all snipy. There's quite a few rail games in there that didn't involve Mr. Bohrer, his considerable contribution to Age of Steam notwithstanding.


Well, Volldampf was licensed from Winsome Games,not just Railroad Tycoon. All Martin's other train games were developed and produced by Winsome Games:
Lancashire Railways
New England Railways
Australian Railways
Prairie Railroads
Pampas Railroads (and Ferrocarriles Pampas)
Veld Railroads (and Veld Spoorwegen)



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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
ed95005 wrote:
If I were Winsome, I'd be pretty pissed off. It's not like there's a giant market for Age of Steam. Now a rival publisher is going to release a substantially similar game under the same name and even advertise the fact that it can be played with the Winsome ruleset? That seems outrageous.


Well, Winsome Games exists to serve train gamers, not to make money. I have a day job! We just find, develop and produce the best train games submitted and sell them in small quantities at Essen. This year we released Han Heidema's 'Wooden Shoes & Iron Monsters' along with Hanno & Wilfried Kuhn's 'New York Central', both fine games that I hope to license to big german firms for mass production, as we did with Franz-Benno Delonge's 'Iron Road', which you know as 'TransAmerica' and now 'TransEuropa'.

When we print off another 3000 'classic' Age of Steam games next year, I expect them to sell out in a year. Railroad Tycoon didn't hurt Age of Steam, mainly because AoS is a gamer's game.

As for advertising the fact that it can be used with the Winsome ruleset, now people see one of the reasons that I don't allow my IP on the net!

meeple

John
Pittsburgh



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John Bohrer wrote:
As for advertising the fact that it can be used with the Winsome ruleset, now people see one of the reasons that I don't allow my IP on the net!

Though I would hope it will be vice versa... ie. we can play with our 'classic' AoS (I have 2nd edition myself) using the Mayfair/Wallace rules.

Jeff
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
John Bohrer wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
vvrood wrote:
statonv wrote:
We already have an Age of Steam light. It's called Railroad Tycoon.


Yes, but Railroad Tycoon had Winsome development. Mayfair's new game has no Winsome involvement, says John Bohrer. It will be interesting to see a railroad game by Martin Wallace without Mr. Bohrer's expertise.


You may want to look through Mr. Wallace's ludography before you get all snipy. There's quite a few rail games in there that didn't involve Mr. Bohrer, his considerable contribution to Age of Steam notwithstanding.


Well, Volldampf was licensed from Winsome Games,not just Railroad Tycoon. All Martin's other train games were developed and produced by Winsome Games:
Lancashire Railways
New England Railways
Australian Railways
Prairie Railroads
Pampas Railroads (and Ferrocarriles Pampas)
Veld Railroads (and Veld Spoorwegen)



John
Pittsburgh


Well, all that may be true, but that doesn't mean I'm not an idiot, no matter what you say.

C'mon, John, I was just setting you up for some free pub! Er...
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Re: Mayfair is coming out with a version with new rules/grap
Hmmmph, I guess I'm old-fashioned. I place a premium on loyalty and relationships, and for Martin Wallace to go and make a deal like this with a competitor seems wrong and bad for the industry. Publishers take a huge risk when they decide to publish a game. If designers are free to sell the same design to multiple publishers, they are diluting the potential rewards and discouraging publishers from taking such risks in the future. Did he at least offer you a chance to publish this so-called third edition?
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