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Subject: Proposal for a miscellaneous CCG card exchange rss

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David Spitzley
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I've been thinking for a while about what to do with the miscellaneous promos and single starter decks I've accumulated for various card games, and I had an idea I want to run past everybody. Obviously running a math trade where people post "I've got 3 Magic the Gathering promos" is unlikely to work really well. However, it occurs to me that a different trading model might work: Pot Luck. Everybody who wants to participate sends their spare cards (and a Manifest of what they sent) to someone who volunteers to coordinate the trade, along with a Want List of games for which they would be interested in receiving cards back. For purposes of transparency, the Manifests and Want Lists would need to be posted publicly, and people who just want to get rid of cards could add them to the pool and submit a blank Want List.

Then, using the list of who is interested and the compiled list of how many cards from which games got sent, the resulting pool of cards gets split out by the volunteer coordinator, returning cards to people based on their proportionate contributions. I haven't worked out the exchange rate scheme yet, but I'm pretty sure it should be possible, if perhaps necessitating a computer; I know that I need to dig out my textbooks and check out Walrasian equilibrium.

So, what do people think?
 
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Jeff Wiles
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The flaw I see is that if everyone ships to a central location, then those people who end up not trading (whether due to an "empty want list" or due to nobody wanting their cards) are going to be paying for shipping both ways for no gain. I like the idea, and would probably participate, but I can't think of a good way to implement it off the top of my head.
 
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David Spitzley
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jeffwiles wrote:
The flaw I see is that if everyone ships to a central location, then those people who end up not trading (whether due to an "empty want list" or due to nobody wanting their cards) are going to be paying for shipping both ways for no gain. I like the idea, and would probably participate, but I can't think of a good way to implement it off the top of my head.


You're right about the shipping problem, which I haven't quite worked out to my own satisfaction. However, I think you're misinterpreting the process I'm trying to describe. Since that's presumably my fault, let me try laying it out again in more detail.

1) Somebody volunteers to run the CCG Potluck, posts a deadline for mailing in cards and sets up a Forum thread.

2) People send in the miscellaneous cards they want to get rid of, and post on the Forum thread a count of each type of card they sent (e.g. "5 Magic: the Gathering, 2 Babylon 5, 3 Spellfire"). The assumption is that the cards they send in will be for games they don't play or collect.

3) Once the volunteer has received all the cards in the mail, they post a list of how many cards of each type were submitted.

4) Each participant who wants cards back submits a list of which games they would like cards for (from the pool of contributed cards).

5) The volunteer splits up the cards amongst the different participants (figuring out the "virtual price" of each type of card will be the tricky part), and mails them to their recipients.

So, unlike a Math Trade, everything that gets sent in goes out to other people, and thus nothing would get shipped back to its original owner. Keep in mind, I'm not assuming most people would be sending in hundreds of cards for a single game, but small numbers (at most a couple starter decks, more likely individual cards). If people wanted to do so, that would be fine, but there's no guarantee that they'd get anything close to the same number of cards back.

In my case, I've got significant numbers of cards for various games (Marvel Overpower, for example), that I'd happily dump into a pool for a few cards from a game I actually collect. More to the point, I've got small numbers of promo cards for well over a dozen games lying around, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing applies to many BGGers, which was the inspiration for this proposal.

Now, this still leaves the shipping issue. Sending the cards in would be paid for by the original owners, and for recipients of small numbers the coordinator could probably just use normal envelopes (with a bit of cardboard for stiffener, of course) which would be a nominal expense; speaking personally, I could eat the $7.80 to mail 100 envelopes without batting an eye. If anybody received several dozen cards back or more, though, the postage could start adding up quickly as boxes would start becoming necessary. I think a statement by the volunteer coordinator about what they want in cost coverage for shipping would be sufficient to handle that, though.

Assuming we could work out the shipping, would anybody be interested in this idea?
 
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Dave Lartigue
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I think you're complicating things too much.

1) Everyone sends X cards to a central person.

2) Everyone gets back X cards, witht he only stipulation being that, if possible, they don't get their own cards back.

They're oddball CCG cards nobody's playing with anyway. Why make it more convoluted?
 
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David Spitzley
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Quote:
I think you're complicating things too much.

1) Everyone sends X cards to a central person.

2) Everyone gets back X cards, witht he only stipulation being that, if possible, they don't get their own cards back.

They're oddball CCG cards nobody's playing with anyway. Why make it more convoluted?


Because there's no guarantee that X cards exist for you to receive back for games you actually want. Nobody is going to bother participating in something like this if the cards they get back are completely random. As it works out, I think I've figured out a reasonably straightforward mechanism for determining how many cards of which type each person receives from the pool. The question is whether anybody would be interested in participating in this.
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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David,

How about an 'anything that fits in a mailer' trade? There are lots of small expansions that are hard to find that I would like & card games I could see getting rid of. By taking the postage costs out of the equation and going with lower value items (not necessarily lower rated), you might get lots of trades.
 
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Occu Pant
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I would much rather see you take this a step further and turn it into a viable math trade. Here is how...
Shipping is what kills most of these kinds of small trades. Rather than focusing on the handful of promo cards hanging around, how about the boxes of dead CCGs in their entirety?? If you set a minimum number of cards that must be offered, like 500 or 1000 then shipping costs are mitigated. This number is basically one or two booster boxes worth and if you pick a number that will fit into one of sizes of those white card boxes that should work well.

Maybe have each person list
For each different card game (or maybe even for each different set within each different card game)
1. Total number of cards offered
2. Total number of Rares/Promos (as this is pretty much what drives the value--esp since shipping should be about the same for everybody).

For example
A. MtG [Ice Age]
1. 200 cards
2. includes 12 Rare/Promos
B. MtG [Tempest]
1. 780 cards
2. includes 52 Rares/Promos
C. Pokemon [Base]
1. 20 cards
2. includes 10 Rare/Promos

Total cards = 1000

I am guessing that many of us have decks/packs/stacks of cards (not just 1 or 2 promos) from various games that we would like to get rid of but shipping kills any possibility of a deal at the smaller numbers.

 
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James Perry
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The problem with that is that for many CCGs there is no easy way for us to determine which cards are Rare or Promos. I have a stack of cards that came out of magazines that I would call promos, but they may be common cards.
 
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David Spitzley
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RoamDog wrote:
I would much rather see you take this a step further and turn it into a viable math trade. Here is how...
Shipping is what kills most of these kinds of small trades. Rather than focusing on the handful of promo cards hanging around, how about the boxes of dead CCGs in their entirety??


Don't take this the wrong way, but that's not the problem I'm interested in addressing. That's not to say it isn't a good idea, but I think it would best be discussed in a different thread. My interest is in creating a mechanism for trading things that currently can't be traded efficiently.
 
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David Spitzley
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grandslam wrote:
David,

How about an 'anything that fits in a mailer' trade? There are lots of small expansions that are hard to find that I would like & card games I could see getting rid of. By taking the postage costs out of the equation and going with lower value items (not necessarily lower rated), you might get lots of trades.


I actually tried that idea last year, but I was insufficiently draconian in enforcing the requirements. However, I'm still not convinced it would work very well in addressing the "orphan card" problem that I'm thinking about here. If nothing else, somebody with 10 Magic the Gathering cards might swamp the value of everything else in the Math Trade and wind up untradeable, whereas the "everything into the pot" process I'm fiddling with would allow the Magic trader to acquire cards from multiple people.
 
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Occu Pant
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No problem at all. You asked for feedback on your idea. I could have just said, "I have no interest in participating in such a structure." But thought that it might be more helpful to explain what I would participate in. I do understand that my request does not obligate you in any way.
 
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Ken B.
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That sounds like a good idea for a math trade:


"1000 card lots of CCGs".


Pile 'em in a big cardbox, list how many and roughly what you have, then dump 'em in.


I'm not sure how big the demand would be, though.
 
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Dave Lartigue
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Wouldn't receiving random, unknown CCG cards be perfectly in the spirit of CCGs?

Dspitzle wrote:
Quote:
I think you're complicating things too much.

1) Everyone sends X cards to a central person.

2) Everyone gets back X cards, witht he only stipulation being that, if possible, they don't get their own cards back.

They're oddball CCG cards nobody's playing with anyway. Why make it more convoluted?


Because there's no guarantee that X cards exist for you to receive back for games you actually want. Nobody is going to bother participating in something like this if the cards they get back are completely random. As it works out, I think I've figured out a reasonably straightforward mechanism for determining how many cards of which type each person receives from the pool. The question is whether anybody would be interested in participating in this.
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David Spitzley
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Not if, for example, I wound up receiving Aliens vs. Predator cards and had no interest in playing AvP. My assumption is that this would be an exchange of cards across card games, not within games.

Legomancer wrote:
Wouldn't receiving random, unknown CCG cards be perfectly in the spirit of CCGs?

Dspitzle wrote:
Quote:
I think you're complicating things too much.

1) Everyone sends X cards to a central person.

2) Everyone gets back X cards, witht he only stipulation being that, if possible, they don't get their own cards back.

They're oddball CCG cards nobody's playing with anyway. Why make it more convoluted?


Because there's no guarantee that X cards exist for you to receive back for games you actually want. Nobody is going to bother participating in something like this if the cards they get back are completely random. As it works out, I think I've figured out a reasonably straightforward mechanism for determining how many cards of which type each person receives from the pool. The question is whether anybody would be interested in participating in this.
 
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George Munzing
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Would it be possible to just do the offerings without actually shipping until the "deals" are worked out? I would list what I have to offer and would like to get in return. The designated moderator complies the lists and sees who actually would be involved. Then the shipping to the central spot, etc. Basically a math trade on the honor system.

My $0.02 worth.

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David Spitzley
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MunzingGR wrote:
Would it be possible to just do the offerings without actually shipping until the "deals" are worked out? I would list what I have to offer and would like to get in return. The designated moderator complies the lists and sees who actually would be involved. Then the shipping to the central spot, etc. Basically a math trade on the honor system.

My $0.02 worth.



Well, the difficulty with that is the same thing normally addressed through a Math Trade, namely that there are no two-way trades, along with the fact that negotiating separate trades for a dozen card games per person is just a mess.

I guess what I want to know is, if I tried throwing this party later this month (after I finish and submit a draft of my dissertation), would anybody come? I'm willing to deal with the administration of the event, but I don't know if anybody would be willing to throw caution to the wind and try participating.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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I'd be interested. I have both small amounts of promo cards from magazines etc. and larger lots from 10+ CCG's I'd be willing to trade off.
I think you might consider labelling it a CCG math trade, but allow other board games in the mix. Some people may want a particular CCG, but only have a copy of Citadels to trade.
I know I'd be willing to trade some of my cards not only for certain other CCG's, but more standard board games as well.
 
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Rokkr wrote:
I'd be interested. I have both small amounts of promo cards from magazines etc. and larger lots from 10+ CCG's I'd be willing to trade off.
I think you might consider labelling it a CCG math trade, but allow other board games in the mix. Some people may want a particular CCG, but only have a copy of Citadels to trade.
I know I'd be willing to trade some of my cards not only for certain other CCG's, but more standard board games as well.


Well, for the larger blocks of cards, the Collectible Games Math Trades I ran seem to work well. Again, I'm mainly interested in trying this as an alternative way of swapping around small numbers of cards between many people.
 
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Brenda Thorpe
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Rokkr wrote:
I'd be interested. I have both small amounts of promo cards from magazines etc. and larger lots from 10+ CCG's I'd be willing to trade off.
I think you might consider labelling it a CCG math trade, but allow other board games in the mix. Some people may want a particular CCG, but only have a copy of Citadels to trade.
I know I'd be willing to trade some of my cards not only for certain other CCG's, but more standard board games as well.


hey rik, not surprised to see you on this thread

i too would be interested in something like this...keeping it to the promos, ie just a small amount of cards should really be the way to go if using 2 points of contact...but if we can work it out, one to one, then maybe some of the larger chunk/standard BGs could work
 
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MunzingGR wrote:
Would it be possible to just do the offerings without actually shipping until the "deals" are worked out? I would list what I have to offer and would like to get in return. The designated moderator complies the lists and sees who actually would be involved. Then the shipping to the central spot, etc. Basically a math trade on the honor system.

thumbsup
No one wants to pay for shipping unless they are getting something in return (I could see a situation where the moderator can't supply someone something from their wants).

Why not simply make this a CCG-only Math trade?: keeping in mind that all entries should be small offerings. e.g. 1 booster pack, 2 promo cards, etc... I can't think of a simpler way to work it that's as hassle-free...
 
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