Koinsky
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
gilford wrote:
.... Is this still a fresh enough, replayable enough, different enough ... ?

On all counts, certainly. Apart from the theme, they haven't got much in common, IMO.

I haven't played Forlorn Hope for a long time, but from what I recall, it's mainly a 2P game with a solo option (which is missing the PvP's thrill) and it's a light and short game.

Last Frontier is more complex (I would say medium +, not hard; but definitely more complex) and was designed as a pure solo. Works very well. It's very challenging and the replayability is surprisingly good.

You may want to check the rules and Lines videos playthrough to be sure it will fit your tastes before buying.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Schaller
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Yes, they're very different games, as Koinsky says. I enjoy them both.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Pattison
United States
Odenton
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gilford wrote:
only playing solo games
and on a budget
is this still a fresh enough, replayable enough, different enough (and how so) game than forlorn hope to warrant a purchase?

many thanks !
Absolutely...

Even though I have Forlorn Hope, I am not as familiar with it.

These are the differences as I see it.

First, Forlorn Hope uses an action point system. Last Frontier uses a modified move/fire system. You don't have Marine Interrupt fire in Last Frontier, but it's covered in the surprise system instead which is situation based.

Second, Last Frontier has a higher strategic level, because Last Frontier is a whole op from ingress to egress where each one of the scenarios in Forlorn Hope is a small piece of a larger op. You determine what you need to get and where you need to go to complete the mission which is to determine the fate of the crew of the Feynman. You can't win without a plan, but your plans will be continually changing based on the enemies encountered, the crew accounted for, the number of casualties, weapon availability, environmental considerations(i.e. gravity, atmosphere, suit damage), and the time remaining on the clock which is not completely known. You'll have to make decisions based on how much risk to subject the whole squad to to search more quickly and who to expose to danger knowing full well that if things go bad that you may not have their expertise if you need it later. And, the Marines can panic as well which also has to be considered.

Third, as a result of the strategic complexity, Last Frontier uses variable time turns which streamlines the game by allowing the player to conduct a lot of actions while not in contact with any enemies. That makes the game move from climatic point to point quickly. Forlorn Hope is a still a linear time game, but the scenarios are fairly short.

Fourth, the way random situations are generated and how bad guys behave are completely different. In Forlorn Hope, bad guys are fed into the access vents on a schedule and come at you from predictable directions, and you can set up choke points to thin them down. In Last Frontier, you move into unoccupied spaces and you roll for an encounter. If you roll one which occurs 50% of the time, you draw from a bag which contains the bodies of the crew, the videos of their deaths, survivors, aliens, robots, alien animals, insane crew members, tools, weapons, and events. The events are always bad, because the ship's security systems have run amok and are trying to kill your marines too by altering gravity, blowing up the ship by overloading the drives, opening the engineering spaces to vacuum, turning out the lights, hacking that friendly robot you just fixed, and filling up spaces with knockout gas. The crew also left behind booby traps. When the aliens appear, they are placed randomly. They are also intelligent. They will ambush the marines in well traveled spaces; but when encountered elsewhere, they may run from a fight if you outnumber them providing there are a lot of exits. Oh, and don't go anywhere alone. The aliens like to abduct people too, and then you can't leave until you find them. Or, the ship gets far enough to reentry that you can't stay.

Finally, the Last Frontier was designed to be a solo game system which has a 2 player option strapped on, while Forlorn Hope is a 2 player game with a couple of solitaire scenarios added.

So, I think the point that I am trying to make is Last Frontier is far more dimensional and far more nuanced.

As far as replayability, I have played over 80 logged games. While there are aspects of each game that are similar, no two have been the same. They can very widely in tempo and intensity from nonstop high casualty games to games where you have to take safety risks to expand your search area because you can't find any sign of the crew.

If you buy this one, I think you'll have a lot of fun working out a plan that works at first. And then, you'll have a lot of fun figuring out how to adjust the plan in the face of completely different situations. As far as the quality of the components goes, Last Frontier is superior.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Pattison
United States
Odenton
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gilford wrote:
George, thanks for the very detailed explanation...I need that.
Might I ask...I see a lot of complaining about the rulebook, about the lack of clarity about what you have to do each phase.

Is that true? are there any updated rules, or player aids to make sure it's a fun experience rather than a chore? I love the look of this game, and the fact that you "do" have to do so much, as one should if managing a ship, crew and multiple problems, right?

I'm considering purchasing. I am a rather boardgame newbie. Got many but haven't gotten around to playing yet.

Thanks mate
The rulebook isn't really that bad. The original designers had a limit of 16 pages to cram everything into in the first edition. As a result, it was expected that players would use their RPG experience to fill in the holes. The second edition just reorganized that without adding much. The game has a lot of interlocking different pieces that work together that can be easy to miss upon the first reading. There is an excellent flowchart put together by Lines(https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/103934/last-frontier-...) that will guide you through each phase and does a good job of putting the pieces together in order.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Pattison
United States
Odenton
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gilford wrote:
thanks man,

the version im looking at is called the bagged, classic edition ?
mean anything? dont know if thats 1st, 2nd, etc...

...it doesnt look like the Lines videos, and his video says it too is the classic edition ...

ahhhh
Lines' is a Designer Edition which is a second edition. It has 5/8" counters and a three piece mounted map. The classic edition has 1/2" counters and a single piece unmounted map. It is also 2nd edition. Bagged means it has everything, but no box. I have one of those in a plastic travel box somewhere. I find the pieces much easier to read than the Designer's Edition, and it takes up much less table space. It is the same game as Lines', just smaller. The manual with charts inside is common to all versions.

This is what the one piece map looks like. It's laid out exactly like the 1st edition map, but with the new artwork.


The 1st edition has artwork that looks like this:
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Pattison
United States
Odenton
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gilford wrote:
ahhhh... you're making me buy this when I thought I was done buying.
I haven't even cracked open Forlorn Hope yet, haha.

now just deciding buy now, or wait to see if there's a Boxing Day sale 8)
You still have free will....for now. devil
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geromino Pares
msg tools
mbmbmb
Ugh... looks like im going to have to purchase this one...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.