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Subject: When to build German Synth Oil rss

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Jesper Noget
Denmark
Copenhagen
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Hi,

I am playing Germany for the first time and hence have lots of things to learn.

One of my questions is: When to build the Synth Oil plants?

We are currently in J/A'40 and Fall Gelb is going according to plan. I have not planned to build the Synth Oil plants in '40, but '41 is surely an option.

I played Japan previously and with Japan the questions is simple as I build it J/F 40 and J/F 41.

Yours,

Jesper
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Wendell
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Yellow Springs
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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It's a lot of $$$ to come up with at once, but the earlier you can build it, the greater the return you'll get on your investment. I try to buy one in early '40.
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Alberto Natta
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I am a newb, so I can be pretty wrong; but usually I build 1 per turn in 1939.

Land units, I've an amount already (alas not cheap, I'd need MILs but...)
Airplanes in 1939, to be honest ... the most I'd buy would be utter crap I am going to scrap in 1949 unless I am lucky.

Do I really feel to buy a LND3 (I am short of FTR2, and it's a lottery for LND2) and risk to get a Ju86?
Maybe the NAV or the FTR3 - but otherwise?

Whereas possible the first turn would be a Synth and a PanzerHQ; and 2nd turn the other Synth and generic stuff to get up the gearing.

I agree that the earlier I build them, the greater return I get.
But then again it depends how quick you plan your Barbarossa too and other details.
 
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Pierre-Emmanuel Baril
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Cohen wrote:
I am a newb, so I can be pretty wrong; but usually I build 1 per turn in 1939.

Land units, I've an amount already (alas not cheap, I'd need MILs but...)
Airplanes in 1939, to be honest ... the most I'd buy would be utter crap I am going to scrap in 1949 unless I am lucky.

Do I really feel to buy a LND3 (I am short of FTR2, and it's a lottery for LND2) and risk to get a Ju86?
Maybe the NAV or the FTR3 - but otherwise?

Whereas possible the first turn would be a Synth and a PanzerHQ; and 2nd turn the other Synth and generic stuff to get up the gearing.

I agree that the earlier I build them, the greater return I get.
But then again it depends how quick you plan your Barbarossa too and other details.


IMO building a synth oil that early compromises the fall of France in 1940. It's by no mean guaranteed against competent allied players.
 
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Bruce Jurin
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Barbuesque wrote:
Cohen wrote:
I am a newb, so I can be pretty wrong; but usually I build 1 per turn in 1939.

Land units, I've an amount already (alas not cheap, I'd need MILs but...)
Airplanes in 1939, to be honest ... the most I'd buy would be utter crap I am going to scrap in 1949 unless I am lucky.

Do I really feel to buy a LND3 (I am short of FTR2, and it's a lottery for LND2) and risk to get a Ju86?
Maybe the NAV or the FTR3 - but otherwise?

Whereas possible the first turn would be a Synth and a PanzerHQ; and 2nd turn the other Synth and generic stuff to get up the gearing.

I agree that the earlier I build them, the greater return I get.
But then again it depends how quick you plan your Barbarossa too and other details.


IMO building a synth oil that early compromises the fall of France in 1940. It's by no mean guaranteed against competent allied players.


This is my advice also - if you are playing regular production, taking out France pronto (along with Poland) is my priority. Usually I start going for them in mid-to late 1940.

I've starting playing around with Factories in Flames, there you may want to get them stated a little earlier.
 
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Alberto Natta
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What usually is built then by Germany in 1939 - besides MILs to soak up losses (and the PzHQ which seems mandatory to me)
 
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Jesper Noget
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My build in '39 was:

ARM HQ
ARM
2xMECH
Some SUBs
1 Pilot.

In '40 (up to and incl M/J) I have build two more MECH, ENG DIV, 2 INF, 2 MIL, SUBs, LND2 x2, fighter and some pilots.

I cannot see what I should have left out for building a synth oil, so far everything has been for taking out France as smoothly as possible.

Next thing is building for the summer '41 Campaign, be it Barbarossa - Sealion - Spain or what ever I have planned.

Maybe I am to focused on getting some boots on the ground and some fighters in the air, but I cannot see how to squeeze synth oil in before '41 without compromising campaigning in '41.

With the resources from France in the bank in '41, it gets more "affordable" in '41 to build the synth oils.

I hope that you all see the dilemma.

Yours,

Jesper


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Pierre-Emmanuel Baril
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Pectin wrote:
My build in '39 was:
Maybe I am to focused on getting some boots on the ground and some fighters in the air, but I cannot see how to squeeze synth oil in before '41 without compromising campaigning in '41.

With the resources from France in the bank in '41, it gets more "affordable" in '41 to build the synth oils.

I hope that you all see the dilemma.

Yours,

Jesper


I can't either. I'd say you want to guarantee the fall of France in 1940 and the best Barbarossa possible in 1941... this leaves nothing for synth oil until 1941.
 
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Jesper Noget
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I reach the same conclusion, even when going for a '42 Barbarossa and Sealion or Spain in between.

There are just so many nice German counters that you want on the board and way to few BP!

What to not build to get the Synth oil plant?

Yours,

Jesper


 
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Pierre-Emmanuel Baril
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Cohen wrote:
What usually is built then by Germany in 1939 - besides MILs to soak up losses (and the PzHQ which seems mandatory to me)


Balance of the stukas (0-2), motorized divisions (2) (no unlimited breakdowns for the board version) the 2nd fighter 3 (decent bomber and interceptor depending if not playing with twin engined option), pilots.

The western allies can seriously challenge the Luftwaffe superiority, especially if resources to western allies is played early - which has a high percentage of chance happening by the end of 1939.
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Andrew
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I agree with the above posts - it's usually best to hold off on building the Synth until after Barbarossa starts, in order to maximize your attack power. That Synth is easily equivalent to 2 corps in terms of build points, or a full armor corps, whose absence will be very notable.

Also, you don't start running into an oil shortage until Barbarossa starts. Ideally, you should be able to stockpile enough for the Euroaxis to get by from 41 to 42 on the saved oil and the 5 you have in Germany/Austria/Rumania. I'd say maybe build one in mid 41, and another in mid 42, since under the newest rules (KiF Oil/etc), 43 on is when the oil costs start getting higher.
 
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Jason Funnell
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Our experience is that if you are going to go for Russia you will need to make sure you can break the garrison. Building the synths is normally a big no-no against a Russian player who builds for garrison.
41 is the normal build year in our games.
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Bruce Jurin
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Agreed, this is a non-starter. The oil you will use will depend on which oil rules you use. I 100% agree that it isn't worth the synth plants if you go for a 41 Barbarossa, unless you find yourself oil short.

In 1939 I start by building a lot of pilots on the first turn. Typical for me is 4 pilots; the idea is against France I like having lots of planes and pilots. I will build Guderian if I'm using that module. If not prob a Mech and Mil. I keep the planes and pilots up the second turn also so that I can flood the board with planes.

This thread shows how many ideas there are for playing this game!

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Perry Lee
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If anyone is curious, it is possible to play Germany effectively without building the synth plants. Bruce brings up an interesting point that it probably makes a difference on which oil and optional rules are used.

I'm currently playing Germany in a local game and made a decision early on that the cost of the synth plants, particularly early in the war, was too great, when I could spend those build points on units to aggressively conquer territory. When calculating the cost of a synth plant, you should think of it in terms of production points, not build points.

It is now J/F 1944 and I still have a stack of oil counters in both Germany and Italy and I'm playing against veteran Allied players, so they aren't going easy on me. Typically I spend a lot in the summer turns and then replenish oil reserves in bad weather turns. Occasionally, I will choose not to reorganize an oil unit if it would put me over the threshold of spending an additional oil point.

We use the oil rules published in the WiF Final Edition rulebook and play with most options and kits.

My S/0 1939 build was:
2 CX (repaired)
1 FLAK
1 HQ-A (Guderian)
1 PARA division

N/D 1939
1 O-Chit
1 Eng division

I wish there were more conversations on strategy. I enjoy thinking and talking about the game.
 
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Ryan Freiburger
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I agree with the above comments suggesting that the Synth plants be put off until 42-43. As the axis, your success is very much determined by what you can accomplish up to 1942. If you cannot capture a source of oil by the end of 1942 (Either the caucuses or Iraq), you have likely already lost the game. So, why play defense in 1939-41 by building a synth? Instead play aggressive and build to capture oil.
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