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Subject: Stalk prey rss

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Contemptus Mundi
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Explore to deal one damage for each terrain symbol you roll that matches your hex. Do wild symbols Count as hits?
 
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Julia
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Yes, a wild result can be spent as any of the other results, so, if you decide that wild represent the terrain you're on it, then it's one damage
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Contemptus Mundi
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Thought so... just wanted to confirm. Thanks so much.
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mark hayward
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Yes. This is an incredible ability and in my observantion ,broken, but still super fun to play :)
 
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David Williams
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It's great, but loses much of its power if you are forced to fight in more difficult terrain for some reason.

Also I have had it fall flat when I wasn't able to improve her move ability and was still rolling 3 dice at the end. In that case the ability is quite weak for that stage in the game, even on plains.

I don't think it's any more broken than Hawthorne's potential for combined Reach and Vicious Strike abilities with som other skills.

Thorn's teleport is powerful and can save a lot of time, and Mind Meld can be great if you are able to find a way to reliably trigger it in time.

I think I need to try Mok again, he felt weak but I only tried him during my first game.
 
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mark hayward
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It loses some of its steam in difficult terrain because you have a smaller chance of rolling difficult terrain symbols, ex. Mountian,water and woods, Mountians being one of the most difficult, but the ability still goes off with "wild" symbols also and you can exert to your content as long as you have the skill cards in hand. So you don't really have to focus on building up your speed dice pool you can build up your max skill card hand size also or do both as you play.

As for more on difficult terrain. Well you really dont ever have to end your turn on them to adventure, on your turn just stick to plains only. I hardly ever move into those areas. The gems reset anyway throughout the whole game.

So with all that being Mixed in one Bowl it creates a recipe for a broken game mechanic. We have played 8 games and 6 of those hade Lyssa in them and she dominated them all by using the same rinse and repeat process and that's with three different people playing her not just me.
 
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David Williams
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flador1 wrote:
It loses some of its steam in difficult terrain because you have a smaller chance of rolling difficult terrain symbols, ex. Mountian,water and woods, Mountians being one of the most difficult, but the ability still goes off with "wild" symbols also and you can exert to your content as long as you have the skill cards in hand. So you don't really have to focus on building up your speed dice pool you can build up your max skill card hand size also or do both as you play.


Good point, building your hand size will have a similar effect. However I didn't manage to do that either. The point is if she's stuck with 3 dice then it's far from broken.

Plus lots of characters have great effects from exertion like Hawthorne recasting all his spent tokens, effectively doubling the number of tokens he has. This only gets more powerful with other skills and assets.

Quote:
As for more on difficult terrain. Well you really dont ever have to end your turn on them to adventure, on your turn just stick to plains only. I hardly ever move into those areas. The gems reset anyway throughout the whole game.


There are only a couple of combat adventure sites on plains, if the other players are sitting back and letting her monopolise those then yeah she will do well, but that's poor play on their part. Sounds like the other players need to push her out or at least use the other tokens nearby so she really cannot do much except for those combat sites, which will be very limiting to her progress.

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So with all that being Mixed in one Bowl it creates a recipe for a broken game mechanic. We have played 8 games and 6 of those hade Lyssa in them and she dominated them all by using the same rinse and repeat process and that's with three different people playing her not just me.


Well as I said, I have used her before and not managed to get anything useful from Stalk Prey simply because the opportunities weren't there. So it's far from the auto-win you seem to think.

Sure, it's powerful. Potentially very powerful. But not on its own, not everywhere, and not significantly more so than many other powerful combos.

Compare to Unleash Spirit which is potentially the same thing but less random and more consistent. With a pumped attribute score Mok can be drawing 7+ cards and still exerting on top. This works everywhere.

I'm not saying Stalk Prey isn't powerful - in fact I would accept it's arguably the most powerful ability in the game once powered up by extra movement or hand size. But that doesn't qualify it as 'broken' in my book.

Have you read the discussion about Hawthorne with Truesight bow and Iron Will? He can do a virtually guaranteed 7+ damage in the first round of combat, without reply.
 
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mark hayward
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Yes maybe it does seem the cards and token casting was in our favor there which made Lyssa extremely powerful in our games,but her nine lives ability is another answer to survival and yet another powerful ability that let's her camp on margath or vorkesh. She can simply start her turn 100% fresh on all aspects and it she is defeated heal with nine lives and go at again and yet another time. That's 3 times she can get a chance to attack with full health.

Lord Hawthornes reach ability is only good for "once per combat" not once per combat round so it's actually not all that powerful unless of course you have a nice spread of tokens.

Eldar Mok is probably my second favorite atm ,but his unleash spirit ability is no where near as powerful as stalk prey. The reason being is the ratio of success cards. With more players playing you don't actually no what skills they have in there hands unless they want to show you and add the factor of the skill deck constantly being drew from and reshuffled, it makes it more difficult to count cards and figure your chances of pulling success. At least with Lyssa's ability you can easily determine your chances by what terrain symbol you are on.

And no I haven't read the post yet about Lord Hawthorne's I will do that now. Cheers :)
 
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David Williams
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flador1 wrote:
Yes maybe it does seem the cards and token casting was in our favor there which made Lyssa extremely powerful in our games,but her nine lives ability is another answer to survival and yet another powerful ability that let's her camp on margath or vorkesh. She can simply start her turn 100% fresh on all aspects and it she is defeated heal with nine lives and go at again and yet another time. That's 3 times she can get a chance to attack with full health.


Yes, Nine Lives is also useful. However note a player defeated by the Villain is eliminated from the game, and Lyssa will not have chance to use Nine Lives in that case. So it looks like you were playing this wrong - and that's a pretty major thing to get wrong and goes a long way towards explaining why she keeps winning in your games.

Quote:
Lord Hawthornes reach ability is only good for "once per combat" not once per combat round so it's actually not all that powerful unless of course you have a nice spread of tokens.


EDIT - The following is incorrect, Vicious Strike works only on spent tokens. But Vicious Strike is once per combat round and that's what I was referring to. Even at the start it allows him to use 5 combat tokens per round (maybe 6 depending how you interpret the rules on combat actions). Reach just means he should be able to deal his damage sooner and avoid replies from the enemy. In combination they are awesome. Combine with Iron Will and Hawthorne can flip a token, attack with most of his tokens, then use reach to activate Vicious Strike and recast them all. That's a whole round of combat he has played without reply.

Quote:
Eldar Mok is probably my second favorite atm ,but his unleash spirit ability is no where near as powerful as stalk prey. The reason being is the ratio of success cards. With more players playing you don't actually no what skills they have in there hands unless they want to show you and add the factor of the skill deck constantly being drew from and reshuffled, it makes it more difficult to count cards and figure your chances of pulling success. At least with Lyssa's ability you can easily determine your chances by what terrain symbol you are on.


If you ignore what other players may or may not have, then it's a 40% success rate. Since its a +1 check and it's easier to raise attributes than Move, I think it's comparable. Note that by exerting he actually increases his maximum damage as well, which isn't the case for Lyssa rerolling. With 2 dice she can only ever get 3 damage no matter how many exertions. Mok could potentially exert 3 times and get 6 damage in total, without even boosting his sats first. Unlikely I agree, but my point was the skill is comparable and more reliable due to not relying on the terrain type.

Incidentally I checked the board - there are 3 combat sites on plains, spread across the board from north edge to SE corner. To focus only on those sites would require a lot of movement I think, and the other heroes should be trying to make those options less appealing for her by either getting there first or using the sites surrounding them so she's not got many other options.
 
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mark hayward
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Where do you see the rule about being defeated by the villain that you lose the game?
 
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Julia
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flador1 wrote:
Where do you see the rule about being defeated by the villain that you lose the game?


It's in the rules reference, pag 14, under Villain, third bullet point (topmost paragraph in the right column). Honestly, possibly the most obscure point of them all, it's not stated in the Learn to Play, it's not stated under Eliminated Heroes, so far tons of players have overlooked it :/
 
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mark hayward
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Holy hell! You are correct. Thanks for the input. Definitely a game changer. Wow they really need to fix where they put that in the rules.
 
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David Williams
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flador1 wrote:
Holy hell! You are correct. Thanks for the input. Definitely a game changer. Wow they really need to fix where they put that in the rules.


Yep - that would explain a lot. You might find that once this unfair advantage over the Villain is corrected for, you don't find Lyssa to be nearly so broken as you think.
 
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Atanasije Stojkovic
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Orion3T wrote:
But Vicious Strike is once per combat round and that's what I was referring to. Even at the start it allows him to use 5 combat tokens per round (maybe 6 depending how you interpret the rules on combat actions). Reach just means he should be able to deal his damage sooner and avoid replies from the enemy. In combination they are awesome. Combine with Iron Will and Hawthorne can flip a token, attack with most of his tokens, then use reach to activate Vicious Strike and recast them all. That's a whole round of combat he has played without reply.


What do you mean by "5 or 6 depending on how you interpret the rules on combat actions"?

Also, I think you might be wrong when it comes to the Vicious Strike. It seems you should not be able to recast spent tokens, just those with results you don't favor (on your unspent ones).
 
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David Williams
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Sargeras777 wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
But Vicious Strike is once per combat round and that's what I was referring to. Even at the start it allows him to use 5 combat tokens per round (maybe 6 depending how you interpret the rules on combat actions). Reach just means he should be able to deal his damage sooner and avoid replies from the enemy. In combination they are awesome. Combine with Iron Will and Hawthorne can flip a token, attack with most of his tokens, then use reach to activate Vicious Strike and recast them all. That's a whole round of combat he has played without reply.


What do you mean by "5 or 6 depending on how you interpret the rules on combat actions"?

Also, I think you might be wrong when it comes to the Vicious Strike. It seems you should not be able to recast spent tokens, just those with results you don't favor (on your unspent ones).


This post was 2 months ago when I was temporarily confused as to how Vicious Strike works, despite having previously argued for what is now accepted to be the correct interpretation.

See here I make the same mistake: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/21562823#21562823

So yeah, you're right it only works on spent tokens, and you're right to point out this error even in this otherwise unrelated thread, as it could cause confusion for others.
 
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