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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Rules

Subject: Invisibility Questions rss

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Robert Hahn
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Lots of confusion on the spell Invisibility.

If I understand it correctly you can’t cast Invisibility on yourself… or at least it will have no effect.

Invisibility grants you the benefits of the Rotten Skill till the end of the Round. However the Rotten skill says you only get the Rotten Token (and thus get ignored by zombies) by not making Combat actions or Noise. Since Invisibility requires you to make Noise to cast, even if you cast it on yourself you wouldn’t gain any benefit from it.

If this a correct interpretation of this spell? Is this RAI?
 
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Angelus Seniores
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not sure, i think you can cast it on yourself and that only noise you nake after casting it will cancel it.
 
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Peter Cooper
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wraith428 wrote:
spell Invisibility.


I-n-v-i-s-i-b-i-l-i-t-y

Sorry, I had to, and I don't have an intelligent answer because I haven't even got the game yet.

(Edited to correct bad spelling blush)
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Jorgen Peddersen
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My take is you get the benefits of the Skill, but not the restrictions. In other words, you immediately get the token and you only lose it via the effects on Invisibility.

The main reason is that the Rotten Skill never makes you lose the token at the end of the round, but IIRC, the Invisibility Spell does.

Thus, my interpretation is that the Survivor is ignored by Zombies immediately after becoming invisible and remains so until one of the conditions on Invisibility is triggered.
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Brad Willo
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Clipper wrote:
My take is you get the benefits of the Skill, but not the restrictions. In other words, you immediately get the token and you only lose it via the effects on Invisibility.

The main reason is that the Rotten Skill never makes you lose the token at the end of the round, but IIRC, the Invisibility Spell does.

Thus, my interpretation is that the Survivor is ignored by Zombies immediately after becoming invisible and remains so until one of the conditions on Invisibility is triggered.



I concur.



.
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Shawn Beatty
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On thought I had...if you're invisible...wouldn't you also count as being slippery, too? Or is that too OP?

Traditional Rotten Skill means you're ignored, but still pay the action penalty to leave a square with zombies. If you're invisible, you wouldn't even be seen, so thematically it doesn't make sense that you also wouldn't be slippery as well.

What do you guys think?
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Nicholas Avallone
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KingZombie wrote:
On thought I had...if you're invisible...wouldn't you also count as being slippery, too? Or is that too OP?



To me, Slippery means something else. Invisibility and Rotten both require you to walk carefully so as not to arouse suspicion and alert the zombies to your delicious brains. Slippery just means you're super-quick when it comes to running away.
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Robert Hahn
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Clipper wrote:
My take is you get the benefits of the Skill, but not the restrictions. In other words, you immediately get the token and you only lose it via the effects on Invisibility.

The main reason is that the Rotten Skill never makes you lose the token at the end of the round, but IIRC, the Invisibility Spell does.

Thus, my interpretation is that the Survivor is ignored by Zombies immediately after becoming invisible and remains so until one of the conditions on Invisibility is triggered.


So that's how I want it to work thematically but here is why I question. If the end condition for Invisibility only cares about the Attacks and Noise the recipient makes after the enchantment is cast could a character with an attack card and Invisibility in hand do the following actions (Attack, Attack, Invisibility) and thus be ignored. Wouldn't this essentially make that character immune to zombie damage because they could always use their last action for Invisibility and get ignored?

Another example is to have a second character use all his actions to Attack or make Noise and then have a second character cast Invisibility on them.

For clarity

"Invisibility - [Noise] Enchantment 'Once per Turn. The targeted Survivor benefits of the Rotten Skill's effects until the end of the Game Round.' 'If he Attacks or makes Noise the Enchantment is canceled.'"

"Rotten – At the end of his Turn, if the Survivor has not resolved a Combat Action (Melee, Ranged or Magic) and not produced a Noise token, place a Rotten token next to his base. As long as he has this token, he is totally ignored by all Zombies and is not considered a Noise token. Zombies don’t attack him and will even walk past him. The Survivor loses his Rotten token if he resolves any kind of Combat Action (Melee, Ranged or Magic) or makes noise. Even with the Rotten token, the Survivor still has to spend extra Actions to move out of a Zone crowded with Zombies."

Invisibility gives you the benefits of the Rotten Skill's effects and the Rotten Skill's effect says that at the character gets the Rotten Token at the end of his Turn if he has not resolved a Combat Action or produced Noise.

As written if you cast Invisibility on yourself it does no good because you made noise casting the spell. If you cast it on someone who has already acted it does no good because Rotten only comes into effect at the end of their turn. That how I'm seeing RAW but I'm not a fan of it thematically.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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There is no way to conclusively answer it without developer input as the wording is so vague. Hopefully the real answer gets addressed somewhere so we know how to play it.

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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One other piece of food for thought... If you take the Rotten Skill in its full literal context, then you cannot use it on a Survivor who already acted this round, as they never receive the token (their turn never ends). The Spell would be pretty absurd if it can only be used to hide Survivors who have not yet acted.

Thus, I further doubt the full text of the Rotten Skill is meant to be in effect.

Edit: on the point of Invisibility being too powerful with the relaxed interpretation, you have to consider that eventually, the Invisibility user will probably be overrun by Zombies and unable to leave the space, with the Zombies heading towards them too due to Invisibility's Noise token. If that space isn't on a Necromancer path, you're going to lose fairly quickly that way, despite never taking a wound.

Even if you are on a Necromancer's path, eventually there will be Necromancers that get multiple activations to pass you by.
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Brandon Wickstrom
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This invisibility seems unclear still.

If my turn starts and I want to be invisible. I cast the spell on myself. Do I become invisible right then using the rotten token. I dont make anymore noise that turn. Zombies ignore me. But they did hear my enchantment spelland would be drawn that location. But luckily for me I walked away from that zone after going invisible.

My turn again, invisibility wares off per the enchantment rules. So I could cast it again, making another noise, and repeat what I listed above.

Does this sound right? Am I missing something?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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bwick503 wrote:
This invisibility seems unclear still.

If my turn starts and I want to be invisible. I cast the spell on myself. Do I become invisible right then using the rotten token. I dont make anymore noise that turn. Zombies ignore me. But they did hear my enchantment spelland would be drawn that location. But luckily for me I walked away from that zone after going invisible.

My turn again, invisibility wares off per the enchantment rules. So I could cast it again, making another noise, and repeat what I listed above.

Does this sound right? Am I missing something?

Sounds right to me. Not sure where the confusion lies with this enchantment. We didn't seem to struggle with it but, being noobs to the game, maybe we don't know what we don't know.
 
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Brandon Wickstrom
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First time playing I didn't realize you had to recast the enchantment. We played you remained invisible until you made noise. But that's just the rotten skill, not the invisible enchantment.
 
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Robert Hahn
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Carcking wrote:
bwick503 wrote:
This invisibility seems unclear still.

If my turn starts and I want to be invisible. I cast the spell on myself. Do I become invisible right then using the rotten token. I dont make anymore noise that turn. Zombies ignore me. But they did hear my enchantment spelland would be drawn that location. But luckily for me I walked away from that zone after going invisible.

My turn again, invisibility wares off per the enchantment rules. So I could cast it again, making another noise, and repeat what I listed above.

Does this sound right? Am I missing something?

Sounds right to me. Not sure where the confusion lies with this enchantment. We didn't seem to struggle with it but, being noobs to the game, maybe we don't know what we don't know.


The confusion to me comes from how Rotten works. Invisibility grants you the benefits of the Rotten Skill. The Rotten skill when boiled down say ]s the survivor is ignored by zombies if at the end of the round the survivor hasn't taken a combat action or made noise. Since casting Invisibility makes noise you can't cast it on yourself without immediately negating its effect.
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Raph Moimoi
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Invisibility needs some rewording.
I think the Invisibility effect starts after you made noise, so the Rotten effect works if you don't make any noise or don't fight till the end of your turn.
If this is not the case there's no reason to play it on yourself (this should have been stated).
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You cannot use the wording of when Rotten triggers to make Invisibility work. The wording on Invisibility clearly overrides it. For example, Rotten only takes effect at the end of the Rotten Survivor's turn. If you take that part as being valid for Invisibility, then using Invisibility on a Survivor that has already activated is useless, as they will not end their turn before the end of the round, when Invisibility runs out.

Surely that interpretation sounds absurd. Thus, we can conclude that the other text on Invisibility about when it activates and when you lose the effect override all such text of the Rotten ability.

Another way to argue it is that the timing of when to get the token is not a benefit of the Rotten Skill; it's just timing and information. Using this interpretation, the benefits are not being able to be seen by Zombies, nor does your figure count as Noise.

I admit there is ambiguity, but applying Rotten in its entirety literally is clearly absurd, so the alternative is the only realistic solution.

Long story short, the only way that the current wording of Invisibility makes sense is that it only applies the beneficial effects of Rotten with none of the timing and loss effects, which are replaced by those in the Spell's text.
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Chuck Hurd
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wraith428 wrote:
Since casting Invisibility makes noise you can't cast it on yourself without immediately negating its effect.

It seems intuitive, and not contradicted, that only noise made after the casting would negate the effect. You could be the noisiest survivor on the board and when you cast this on yourself you become as Rotten.

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Tron

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Pretty sure I know how to use invisible now but what are your thoughts about searching a room with zombie in it while invisible?
Legal?Yes or no
 
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Chuck Hurd
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derezzed wrote:
Pretty sure I know how to use invisible now but what are your thoughts about searching a room with zombie in it while invisible?
Legal?Yes or no

I would say while Rotten/Invisibility forces zombies to ignore you, it doesn't allow you to ignore zombies. The requirement of spending extra actions to move away, for example, gives us an indication that zombies still affect the zone. I would rule no to searching based on that, but could be wrong.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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We agree 100% on that one, Carcking.
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Vicente Zepeda Mas
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Is there any official concensus on this? Having the same doubts.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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There has since been a ruling that we believe may be official mentioned towards the end of this thread.

It basically states that the Survivor who is made invisible could not have made noise that round.

We haven't yet gotten confirmation that the ruling comes from an official source, but it will probably come through soon.
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Robin Reeve
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Looking for a game session in Switzerland? Send me a pm!
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FYI, Guillotine Games haven't answered my email yet.
I am a little concerned, as it seems that they usually do it quickly.
 
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Jake Waltier
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As I said in the other thread, if Guillotine Games clarifies the rule in a way I think is bad, I'll just keep playing the way I'm playing. I'm not running tournaments here.
 
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Brad Willo
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Didn't you know? In a Zombie apocalypse there is NO rules. zombie

There's only fun!
 
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