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Washington's War» Forums » General

Subject: Which is correct? (Flipping and event discards) rss

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Jim Lee

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I have the Major Sholto player aids that came with the C3i mag. They are great (they are also in the files section here).

However, Major Sholto's "advanced player aids," which are similar and came out later (and are in the files section here) are different in one important respect:

The first player aid says a PC cannot be flipped with an event discard (and presumably an army present in the space) but the "advanced" player aid says you CAN flip a PC with an event discard and an army present. I think the advanced player aid is correct.

What is the official ruling? I cannot find it on this forum.
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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You've mentioned both player aids, but what do the rules say?
 
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Kent Reuber
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The "advanced" rule seems to be correct. I'm not sure why it would be called an "advanced" rule since there is no optional/advanced rules in the rulebook. There is a 2014 reprint version of the rules; perhaps this reflects a clarification.

6.32B wrote:
When a player discards an Event Strategy Card as his play during the Strategy Phase, he also takes one of the following actions:
(i.) The card is simply discarded and no further action is taken; or
(ii.) Place or flip one PC adjacent to a friendly PC subject to the additional restrictions in Rule 10.11; or
(iii.) Remove one enemy PC from a space which is adjacent to a space containing a friendly PC counter and that is not occupied by an enemy CU, an American General or the Continental Congress.


10.1 wrote:
As one PC action the American player may flip a British PC marker to its American PC marker side if there is an American General in the space. The American General does not need to have any CUs in the space.


10.1 wrote:
As one PC action the British player may place a British PC marker or flip an American PC marker to its British PC marker side if there is a British Army (i.e., a General and at least 1 CU) in the space.
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Barry Miller
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Ah, I love it when someone actually cites the rulebook when answering rules questions. ALL responses to rules questions should be like this!

But I know I'm in the minority with that opinion.



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Jim Lee

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Yes, I could have cited the rules. Sorry guys. shake In this case, however, Kent's citation does not answer the question. The bold text is for emphasis (I'm not shouting).

Here is the issue:

Congress is dispersed and I'd like to flip a British PC with my American army using an event discard.

The rules say at section 10.11A(iv): "(iv.) Continental Congress dispersed (“Pennsylvania and New Jersey Line Mutinies”):


The American player may not use OPS Cards or an Event discard to place PC Markers if the Continental Congress is dispersed (7.7) or if the “Pennsylvania and New Jersey Line Mutinies” Event Strategy Card has been played as the event during the current turn.

The Americans may still flip PC markers with an OPS Card play (see iii above). The Americans can still remove PC markers by discarding an Event card (6.32.B.iii). The Americans can still play Events to place PC markers.

I believe there is a lack of clarity here by way of the omission of a statement as to whether or not flipping a PC can be done with an event discard after congress is dispersed. Every other situation appears to be addressed, though.

I think the rules should say either:

(1) "...may still flip PC markers with an OPS Card play OR EVENT CARD DISCARD" OR

(2) "...may still flip PC markers with an OPS Card play but NOT WITH AN EVENT CARD DISCARD."

GMT endorsed the first player aid (which I love), but I take issue with it at this one point: the aid has "N" for "no" as to flipping PC markers with an event discard when congress has been dispersed.

Still not sure which is right. I say arguing from silence for disallowing a PC flip with an event discard is weak and that it should be allowed. The rules without congress dispersed allow it, and the rules with congress dispersed do not expressly prohibit it.

What say you?
 
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Jim Lee

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P.S.

"Advanced" in my initial post referred to "Major Sholto's" player aid, not the rules. The player aid is entitled as such on page 3 of the "Files" section for Washington's War.
 
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Barry Miller
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I think this may be what you're looking for, from the 2014 Rulebook, page 18. (available on GMT's web site):

(The below is to be added as rule 10.11.A.iii)

Continental Congress Dispersed Clarification:
In addition to the ability to use an OPS card to flip (but
not place) a PC under these conditions, the Americans
may discard an event to flip (but not place) a PC marker
as in 10.11.A.iii
.


So your question was on the right track. But Mark already addressed it in the latest re-write of the rulebook.

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Jim Lee

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Thanks a ton, Barry!! And thank you for being patient!

I thought I had the latest iteration of the rulebook but obviously did not! I have a PDF of the rulebook on my computer but I guess I obtained it longer than a year ago. Thanks again for the clarification and for pointing me to the latest edition of the rules.
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, there seems to be an app for everything, except one that informs you when a rulebook for the games you own has been updated!

There is no such app of course, that I know of. But the next best thing is subscribing to the game pages here on BGG, for each of your [favorite] games. I'm not sure if you already do this? I had been a BGG member for about four years before I discovered the "Subscribe" button in the top right of each game's page. You can modify the various portions of each page that you're actually subscribing to.

Where I'm going with this, is that for most games, if a publisher updates their Rulebook for any given game, it's bound to be discussed in the forum for that game. And if you're subscribed you'll automatically get an email informing you of the new thread or new post.

The whole problem with the above advice is that before I discovered the "subscribe" button, I had a life. But since, my "life" consists of checking out all of the new posts, files, and videos that pop-up for each of my favorite games during the day! (I subscribe to about 40-50 games). It's the adult version of teenagers checking their phones for texts every 15 minutes. I need help!

 
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Jim Lee

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Barry, this is both an informative post. I laughed out loud at the teenager-text analogy. I have four teenagers. Well...cry

I was about to hit "subscribe" for my favorite games but now am giving pause based on the avalanche-like increase in emails that may result.

Great idea, though, and...I may still do it. Thanks again for the pointer. Good one.
 
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Barry Miller
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Sorry... I should've made it clear that BGG sends you only one email a day - in the wee hours of the morning (in the U.S.) - if any of your subscriptions has any unread activity as of that time.

So BGG will notify you only once per day via email... But how many times during the day that you check your subscriptions "new activity" count* on your own, is up to you, and may bring out the teenager in you!

* Found at the top left of the persistent banner, just under the "new messages" icon.

Well, Now that I've been kicked out of the kitchen for the past two hours, I'm needed in there now (probably only to clean up). Have a good Christmas!



 
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You can also manage your subscriptions for items (games) so that you only receive notifications of new Files and not everything else, if you want.
 
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Barry Miller
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Yes, true. The only problem with that is, a lot of publishers don't post rules in the files library. Often the only way to learn that a rulebook has been updated (or is planned to be updated) is by players posting word in the forum section.

 
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