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Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: nemesis icon when 2 nemesis in play rss

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Kyo
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if there is 2 nemesis in play and i roll a nemesis icon.

Do I trigger both effect?
 
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James Chan
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Yup the rules reference says to resolves all nemesis effects in play.
 
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Brian Busha
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And you didn't ask, but if you roll multiple nemesis (nemeses?) icons, you only resolve each nemesis one time. It's punishing enough!

I have a question though: When it has the 'or' in place, do you resolve the first and then second? Or whichever you'd like? Or is it that whichever can be resolved must be resolved?

Spoilers: Q2 has a nemesis that makes you lose life or become sickened. Couldn't you always choose sickened to game it? I felt like we played that in a gamey way, changed it to always do the harder thing for the following quests, enjoyed it more. Just want to confirm it's in the rules somewhere.
 
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Chris G
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If it says either or you can choose however you must be able to qualify the option. For example of it says spend a success or progress token or ... If you don't have a success or progress token to spend you can't take that option.
 
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Davide C
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To be honest the rules are not clear on that matter, it could be both ways. For me it is the only big rules issue of the game, which I hope a FAQ will answer soon. It is actually quite punishing to always get the bad effect when the other one can't be payed for (wait to see the nemeses of quests 3 and 5 ), and even when playing that you can "game" the game that way we have lost the campaign big time. But, it could be designed like that of course.
 
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Martin Mlodzkoski
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I agree with Idorrac...see Unofficial FAQ in rules forum for more.

The open Question is.. can you "become sickened" if you already are sickened. The ruling would apply to the nightcloak and nemesis in quest 2 and more.

Rules reference page 6 says "If a hero who is already sickened would become sickened again, he ignores the effect."

When I read this, I believe that "become sick" and "receive sickened" are two separate steps. Others disagree...

There are many situations in the game where you have a condition and are afflicted with that same condition. For example, I'm already bleeding and a wolf hits me (again). I'm still bleeding, but I don't go to "double bleeding."

The outstanding question is if you can CHOOSE to receive the condition if you already have it; in these cases it would benefit you. So it depends on if become = receive or if become precedes receive.
 
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Vladimir Lehotai
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Grandmartoni wrote:
I agree with Idorrac...see Unofficial FAQ in rules forum for more.

The open Question is.. can you "become sickened" if you already are sickened. The ruling would apply to the nightcloak and nemesis in quest 2 and more.

Rules reference page 6 says "If a hero who is already sickened would become sickened again, he ignores the effect."

When I read this, I believe that "become sick" and "receive sickened" are two separate steps. Others disagree...

There are many situations in the game where you have a condition and are afflicted with that same condition. For example, I'm already bleeding and a wolf hits me (again). I'm still bleeding, but I don't go to "double bleeding."

The outstanding question is if you can CHOOSE to receive the condition if you already have it; in these cases it would benefit you. So it depends on if become = receive or if become precedes receive.


RRG p.6
Quote:
"A hero cannot have more than one copy of the same condition at the same time."


RRG p.2
Quote:
"If a card or quest uses the word "cannot", that effect is absolute and cannot be overriden by any other game effects."


The situation is pretty clear, unless you desperately want to be a rules lawyer, or read too much into it.
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Davide C
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Of course you can't get a condition twice. My point is that it is not clear if you have to take the second effect when you can't "pay" for the other one in the "either... or" type of effects (see Unkel, Snak, Garrok...).
The literal wording simply allows you to choose which effect to apply. If you can't pay for the effect you choose (for example you have to become sickened but you already are or you can't because you wear the night cloak) in theory nothing should happen.
This feels a bit gamey, so another interpretation of the situation is that if you can't pay for one of the two effects, you have to choose the other one, so always choose the one that "hurts" you. This is also supported by some "situational evidence", that is this makes it worth it to explore the last location in quest 3.
I am personally for the first interpretation. If I were the designer, I would have gone with that because it is a cleaner ruling, and would have used a different wording for the second interpretation. But it might be the actual designers' intention was the other one. This is not clear from the rulebook.

EDIT
There is also the "you may... in order to..." type of effects. The question here is: can you activate the second part of the effect if the first cannot be payed for? My guess here is no, and in general it is clear. Take for example the Warrior Priest's attack. I would say that if you don't have another action to exhaust, you don't get the bonuses. BUT, I think it gets shadier for those cards whose trigger is getting a condition. Can you activate them if you have an item protecting you from the condition, or if you already have the condition and thus you would not get a second condition card?
 
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Vladimir Lehotai
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Well, you have to pick one of the two options. And since you cannot pick one of them (whatever the reason is), then you have to pick the other one - at least that is my experience from similar situations from the other FFG games. If you can't pick either one, then you're lucky.

Snak's effect is to either lose 1 progress, or get two wounds. You have no progress to lose? Then you can't pick the "lose 1 progress" option and therefore you have to get two wounds. Regarding Unkel, if you already sickened, you cannot get sickened again and you have to lose 1 success token. If you already are sickened while having no success token to lose, then his nemesis effect is irrelevant.

Re: your edit
In the Warrior Priest's example it is as you have said - if you have no other action to exhaust, you get no bonuses. The other case (gain X condition to do Y) is quite clear as well. If you already have the condition, you cannot gain it for the second time. See the definition of "cannot" in my post above from the RRG. If you have the Night Cloak, it's effect is clear as well - "you cannot recieve conditions". Neither empower, nor the negative conditions. "Cannot" is absolute and it cannot be overriden by any other effect. For example in Eldritch Horror, there are several items or investigator abilities that state "you cannot gain X condition unless you chose to", so you clearly see that you have a choice. If the cloak's effect states that you cannot recieve conditions, then you cannot recieve them in any case, not once, not ever. "Cannot" is the key word that forbids it, whether you want it or not.
 
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Davide C
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For the "either... or" situations, the point is that there is no rule stating that you can't pick a choice if it would have no effect on you. Saying that you can't is an interpretation. Might be the right one, but we have no clear way to know it is. The other interpretation is that you simply choose one of the two options, and then you apply it. If it can't be applied (e.g. you are already sickened) nothing happens, just ad nothing happens if a wolf lacerates you when you are already bleeding.

For the conditions as an activating cost, the point is that you can't get a condition card twice (I.e. you can't be sickened twice) but can you still "become sickened" if you already are (of course without taking the card).

 
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Vladimir Lehotai
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Idorrac wrote:
For the conditions as an activating cost, the point is that you can't get a condition card twice (I.e. you can't be sickened twice) but can you still "become sickened" if you already are (of course without taking the card).


Wow. Rules lawyering at its worst. If you don't take the condition card, you can't recieve it (or become sickened) and therefor you cannot pay the activation cost. While you have a point about the interpretation regarding the first part of your answer, this is.....well, beyond terrible.
 
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Davide C
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I agree with you that the second part is really borderline. To be honest in that case I also rule that you can't pay the cost and get the benefit, but still I find that it is not 100% sure and I just wanted to provide another possible answer to the question.
 
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Martin Mlodzkoski
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Vladimir17 wrote:


Wow. Rules lawyering at its worst. If you don't take the condition card, you can't recieve it (or become sickened) and therefor you cannot pay the activation cost. While you have a point about the interpretation regarding the first part of your answer, this is.....well, beyond terrible.


If you are correct, and you certainly might be...then it means the nightcloak, which does nothing but prevent you from getting conditions,actually prevents you from getting the benefit of preventing conditions on the quest 2 nemesis. That would be worse than rules lawyering at its worst.
 
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Keith Higdon
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One of the designers did say that they didn't want the decision on what Gear to use to be cut and dry. They wanted to provide some tough decisions where you might gain good benefits in certain situations but severe penalties in others. It's actually the reason the unequipping of depleted Gear is so hard.
 
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Martin Mlodzkoski
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rkhigdon wrote:
One of the designers did say that they didn't want the decision on what Gear to use to be cut and dry. They wanted to provide some tough decisions where you might gain good benefits in certain situations but severe penalties in others. It's actually the reason the unequipping of depleted Gear is so hard.


Well if the nightcloak doesn't work on the quest 2 nemesis, then it is pretty cut and dry that you don't want it! That said, my hope is that the intent of whatever quote/comment you are referring to does not mean that the designers wanted items to not work in situations where they obviously should work.
 
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