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Kemet» Forums » Rules

Subject: Regarding splitting armies while teleporting them. rss

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Ljusto Struhar
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So my friends and I had gotten into a situation where we had one of them win a game after he had like 2 victory points, and we decided that it was best to ask here for clarification is something like that possible.

Basically, what he did, seeing as he had the least points, was put himself last, get the Obelisk Teleport (rank 2 red card), and then split-teleport his army onto 5 temples in the last turn.

The sequence was - 1 action point to recruit 5 - 2nd action (silver) to teleport 5 to the nearest temple, walk with the beetle and 4 people to the first closest temple, then teleport one guy from the beetle group to a temple each. He then had 5 temples - 5 victory coins, plus 2 extra for holding 4 of them at the end of the day phase, getting him from 2 to 9 and winning.

My friend claims that once you are in possession of the obelisk teleport tile, you can teleport as much as you want as long as you pay (and he did pay for all the teleportation). My impression is that, while you should teleport as much as you want, you wouldn't be able to split-TP your troops and snag 7 points in one turn.

So I'm just posting this here in order to clarify the situation because the rules are kind of muddled when I read them regarding this.

Thanks
 
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Brian Nguyen
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You only get one point for holding two temples. You don't get extra points iirc.

You can teleport a whole troop and leave one behind. So if he left one behind as he teleported to each temple he could have done that. The fact five temples were left open is atrocious.
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Joe Rogers
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I don't have the rules in front of me, but I'm with you. Split teleporting seems fishy
 
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Dawid
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https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1496425/question-regarding-...

As I said in the other thread this seems to be legitimate.
But I don't like it.

tekshi wrote:
The fact five temples were left open is atrocious.
Not at all.
Near the end of the game it is common not to leave any units outside the city, since that can earn point for other players if they will defeat them. So even when winning a battle players will tent to recall the troops.

The fact that such a move seems possible, that is atrocious.
 
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Ljusto Struhar
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Ok I didn't see that my friend opened up a question as well. Yea basically this is the same game, though I went into more detail describing the scenario so we can hopefully get a good answer.

Edit - to me it seems that this kind of move goes agianst the basic concept of the game, which is combat.

The basis on which the scenario is made is to be passive from the very start - get at most one lvl 4 pyramid, fight no one, and that guarantees that you will be able to pick the turn order of everyone and thus guarantee that once you have the right combination, you can just win the game with 0 battles won, or even fought.

I have contacted Matagot and maybe they'll stop by
 
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Ivan Franic
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It maybe unfair but that move is not restricted by the rules that are written in the kemet rules manual.I agree it's a powerful move,but there are more easy counters that prevent this move even if the player is last to act.And i think that the teleport card is there for a reason,because it seems to me that in a 5 player game,not all 5 players can have a strong enough attack or defense boost that allows them to win by battle only.That's why you have the options to choose how you are going to win,by battles,holding temples,or by sacrificing and buying victory points and upgrading pyramids.There are a number of cards that are OPivine wound,initiative,legion,and they all need the proper combos to be effective,the 1 card alone is not enough to change the outcome of the game.
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Dawid
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LutajuciBokelj wrote:
It maybe unfair but that move is not restricted by the rules that are written in the kemet rules manual.I agree it's a powerful move,but there are more easy counters that prevent this move even if the player is last to act.
What are those easy counters?

LutajuciBokelj wrote:
And i think that the teleport card is there for a reason,because it seems to me that in a 5 player game,not all 5 players can have a strong enough attack or defense boost that allows them to win by battle only.That's why you have the options to choose how you are going to win,by battles,holding temples,or by sacrificing and buying victory points and upgrading pyramids.
Who said that a Teleport tile will always go to the military weakest player?

LutajuciBokelj wrote:
There are a number of cards that are OPivine wound,initiative,legion,and they all need the proper combos to be effective,the 1 card alone is not enough to change the outcome of the game.
Don't agree.
I've seen that tile winning game to often. It drastically brakes the game in my opinion. Should be restricted (in my opinion).
Non of other tiles makes possible to earn 5 victory points in one action.
Without it player can earn 2 vp at most (if I'm not mistaken) with a single action, and it's rather not easy.
So one tile making possible to earn 5 or even more points in a single action is game braking.
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Spieler Gott
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This "teleport strategy" doesn't work if only one or two players put units on one or two temples.
I guess your group learned the lesson and would go onto the temples and not hiding in their cities the next time you play it.

And for still having those sudden death wins, play with the Ta-Seti rule.
That means, you can only declare victory when it's your turn again and no one else surpassed you with victory points.
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Ivan Franic
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1)The first counter is that a minimum of 3 temples are held by the other players.The second counter is to invade the pyramids of the player who controls the teleport power tile

2)Nobody says that,even the military strongest can pick up that card,in order to prevent someone from having it.But by doing so he let someone pick a card which would be more suited for his strategy.

3)True,no other card can earn you 5-6 points in one action.
I don't agree that kemet is a mainly combat driven game,sure the battles are more rewarding for an offensive strategy or for a defensive one(including they posses defensive victory),but that's only 1 aspect of the game.The purpose of the game is to accumulate the most points(battle,sacrifice,power tile,pyramid,temple points) meaning you have all kinds of different strategies on your disposal in order to achive that,all players can win,even if they don't have good combat stats.
In my opinion it would be bad to restrict the teleport tile only because it doesn't seem fair to the players who focused their strategy mainly on winning combats,that's all i have to say regarding that,and you can freely chose to disagree with me
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Spieler Gott
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LutajuciBokelj wrote:
1)...The second counter is to invade the pyramids of the player who controls the teleport power tile


This doesn't prevent this player to use his teleport power tile.
 
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Ivan Franic
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That counter depends,if the player has only 1 time to recruit,3 players could march into its 3 pyramids,preventing him to spread,or at least reduce the number of units that could spread over the temples
 
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Dawid
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kackarschen wrote:
This "teleport strategy" doesn't work if only one or two players put units on one or two temples.
I guess your group learned the lesson and would go onto the temples and not hiding in their cities the next time you play it.
You don't understand.
No matter how many players will occupy temples. Sooner or later there will be combat. Late in the game let's say that you won the battle with 3 units left. Will you leave them in the temple if there are players to perform a move action yet? If you do you just give a free victory point to the next player. If you don't next player will attack other temple and will possibly have the same decision to make. And so on.
Event 1 empty temple can earn 4 victory points to a player with a teleport tile (read further).

LutajuciBokelj wrote:
1)The first counter is that a minimum of 3 temples are held by the other players.
Even if after a full round (5 player game) there are troops in 4 temples and the last player is a player with teleport, he can most probably deduce a player who he can beat - teleport to a non occupied temple and that attack the weakest player - this is 4 vp in one action (2 temples + 1 combat + 1 for having 2 temples).

LutajuciBokelj wrote:
2)Nobody says that,even the military strongest can pick up that card,in order to prevent someone from having it.But by doing so he let someone pick a card which would be more suited for his strategy.
Well, previously you said
LutajuciBokelj wrote:
And i think that the teleport card is there for a reason,because it seems to me that in a 5 player game,not all 5 players can have a strong enough attack or defense boost that allows them to win by battle only.
Where you suggested that this tile is good for week militarily player.
But nothing grants that the player who will buy this tile early, won't become a strong attacker. And the tile in hands of strong offensive player is even more overpowered.

I rarely say this but for me this tile is definitely not balanced if not broken.
I would like to see official clarification on this tile.
For me the way it would be balanced is when one teleportation per move would be allowed, and it doesn't seem to be that way.
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Brian Nguyen
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I wouldn't say its broken after one game. The whole lol 7 points in one turn happened because no one paid attention to what the last player could do.

"Noo it's a horrible strategy to leave soldiers on a temple after a tough fight, it's a free vp."

Well it's a horrible strategy to let someone control 5 temples when they have the ability to do so and have been gearing towards doing exactly that during the entire round.

The issue here is, the players at the table didn't know that that strategy worked and have not encountered it before. Now they will never let it happen again, it's a one time use strategy now that everyone knows its existence.
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Dawid
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tekshi wrote:
I wouldn't say its broken after one game. The whole lol 7 points in one turn happened because no one paid attention to what the last player could do.

"Noo it's a horrible strategy to leave soldiers on a temple after a tough fight, it's a free vp."

Well it's a horrible strategy to let someone control 5 temples when they have the ability to do so and have been gearing towards doing exactly that during the entire round.

The issue here is, the players at the table didn't know that that strategy worked and have not encountered it before. Now they will never let it happen again, it's a one time use strategy now that everyone knows its existence.
I've played Kemet 9 times. And probably half of them a player with a teleport tile won.

As I've shown previously one empty temple can lead to 4 vp in one action. All you need is 4 vp gathered already and boom. You've won the game.
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Spieler Gott
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Ignipes wrote:


As I've shown previously one empty temple can lead to 4 vp in one action. All you need is 4 vp gathered already and boom. You've won the game.


-Unless you play till 10 VPs.
-Unless if all temples are occupied.
-Unless the other players are strong enough to defend their temples.
-Unless your are not the last player.
-Unless you are playing with the Ta-Seti rules.

I played Kemet today. And every temple was strong defended. Every fight could go in one direction or the other. And after the win of a battle it was not always necessary to take back your units from the temple, because the winner could still have enough units left.
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Dawid
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Yeah, I know all the "unless". But the point is this shouldn't be possible ever.
If normally you can gather max of 2 vp in action, then 1 tile shouldn't make it possible to gather 4 or more.

This new ending condition introduced in Ta-Seti fixes this problem indeed.
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Spieler Gott
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I would be proud of myself to make such a 4 VP "bäääääm in your face"-move
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Christian B.
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Ignipes wrote:
I've played Kemet 9 times. And probably half of them a player with a teleport tile won.


I've played Kemet 14 times and that haven't been my experience at all
I guess it just comes down to different play styles (for instance, we almost never leave the temples when we've won a battle, unless of course we've only got 1-2 units left in that troop). And as kackarschen pointed out, there are a lot of "unless"... Also, if you know the last player has 4 VP, the teleport tile and a movement action left, you probably should occupy all temples and target that specific player...
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Andy Day

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I've never seen all the temples empty. They give prayer points. Which are rather important.

You are calling this a problem with the game, but really it is a problem with your players. There are plenty of avenues for ludicrous strategies when your enemies do nothing to stop you.
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Matagot Contact
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Hi all,

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party.

But I just wanted to clarify that the "split-teleport" is completely forbidden.

Can you indeed split your army by leaving units behind, but you cannot split be sending them in several direction.

This is true for teleporting as well as for normal mouvement.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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I think the idea is that you never send them in different directions, you teleport to one obelisk, leave someone, teleport from that obelisk to another one (with the power)(remember, teleporting costs no movement), leave another guy behind, teleport again, ect.
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Matagot Contact
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Aaah ! Okay !

In that case, as long as he can pay the 10 PP (5 times 2), he is good to go !
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Orion A
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Sure if you leave guys behind after a battle you're probably weakened but it's worth it in my opinion. Here's why. Firstly, you may not get attacked, your opponents may now want to risk losing the battle and will just take an empty temple for themselves. If they do leave you alone that's more prayer for you in the next day. Secondly, if you are attacked it may give the other player a victory point but they aren't getting it easily. I always save my 1 strength/3 damage card for this situation. It gives them something to think about. Maybe I have some damage DI cards and can wipe out their army. Maybe I'm bluffing and have my 4 strength card and a DI card that could let me win the battle. Anyways, if you damage their troop they'll be weakened and need to take actions to recruit during the next day. Plus it stops people from taking advantage of the Teleport tile.

I don't think we've ever had someone with the Teleport tile win in our plays. Mostly because I haven't purchased that tile ever and I've won most of the games.

I should add that we play with all discarded battle cards facedown.
 
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