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Cthulhu Wars» Forums » General

Subject: Need Advice! Krylon Matte Black Primer left a sandpaper grit on figures. rss

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Chase Norton
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I primed Tsathaggoua's faction in black Krylon Primer, and the finish is like fine grit sandpaper. I can actually rub off tiny grains of paint. Anyone experience this? Did I do something wrong? Any way to fix? Advice is greatly appreciated!
 
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the artificer
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SlyMcNasty wrote:
I primed Tsathaggoua's faction in black Krylon Primer, and the finish is like fine grit sandpaper. I can actually rub off tiny grains of paint. Anyone experience this? Did I do something wrong? Any way to fix? Advice is greatly appreciated!


What's the weather like in your area?
I ask because primers and finishes can be very sensitive to humidity.
I've experienced the grit thing in the past, usually at above 70% humidity. Same with Testor's DullCote clouding up.

Also, which primer were you using? Fusion or one of their normal primers?

The other question I'd ask is if you degreased the minis first? Warm water and a light concentration of degreaser (Simple Green) will give you much better bonding.

goo

Edit/additional: If you're going to try to remove the primer I'd recommend you start with a soak in Simple Green (test it on the underside of a base first, as I've not used it to strip PVC minis, only styrene/ABS and metal minis) and then use an old toothbrush to scrub the crevasses.

If that doesn't work you could scale up to one of the purple cleaners/degreasers (again, testing it on the underside first).

I'd avoid Pinesol, as it WILL melt some plastics.
 
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David Boeren
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I've mainly dealt with metal figs instead of plastic, but I agree that grainy texture can be caused by humidity.

Typically my process is to wash figures in soap & water, metal minis don't seem to need a degreaser although maybe plastic does?

It's also good if you're using a new process to test it out on an unimportant figure first.
 
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Marc Allie
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I've had this happen before on both metal and plastic minis, usually due to high humidity. I found that I was still able to paint on top, and after a good matte sealer there was no noticeable difference from other figures that had been primed smooth. YMMV.
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the artificer
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dboeren wrote:

Typically my process is to wash figures in soap & water, metal minis don't seem to need a degreaser although maybe plastic does?

It's also good if you're using a new process to test it out on an unimportant figure first.


Plastics definitely do, soft plastics like CW minis much more so than ABS/styrene. The PVC is slightly greasy anyway, and you want to make sure to wash off any mould-release that might still be on the surface (or, if you've been handling the minis, possibly greasy/oily fingerprints) before priming.
goo
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T C
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Could be humidity, could be not shaking the can enough, or it could just be a faulty can.

You may be able to remove the krylon with these tips: http://www.ehow.com/how_6687701_remove-krylon-paint.html

If the humidity is too high in your area, gesso is a good alternative primer:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Priming_With_Acrylic_Gesso
 
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Nick Storm
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or the cold air causing the paint to 'ball' as soon as it leaves the spray nozzle. Possibly similar to the 'humidity' posits above. Either way = not good.

I always use brush on primer in cold weather. And, whatever ya do, always test your paint on a single figure. In this case, may I suggest a lowly cultist. They are used to it by now!
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Chase Norton
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Thanks for all the prompt advice everyone! I am in Utah, which has dry winters so humidity should not be a problem. I also have a heater in my garage which should dry the air out a bit also. If it is anything environmental, I would say it is temperature which is probably around 50deg.

Aside from environment, I have made several mistakes you guys mentioned. It is possible I did not shake the can enough and I did not wash the figures.

I painted up the serpent men last night which came out pretty good. You can definitely see some grain if you look closely.



I will probably proceed with painting the faction as I don't want to go through the stripping process which could pose risk to the figures. I might try to smooth it out with a layer of matte sealant before adding more paint as Marc Allie suggested.

In the future, I will for sure test on one miniature before spraying a whole faction! Thanks again for all the awesome tips guys.
 
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T C
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With spray paints you also want to start your spray off the figure on like some card board to make sure it is coming out smoothly and then move quickly over the figure so you don't pool paint and obscure details.

Spray paints can be a bit grainy even in the best of circumstances though. Low temperatures can be just as problematic as hot weather.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?173018-How-Do-I...
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David Boeren
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One more thing... You might be spraying too close?

Try to keep the can at least a foot or more away and hopefully this will help get a more even coat. This may give any big blobs of paint time to fall to ground before hitting your figure.
 
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Chase Norton
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dboeren wrote:
One more thing... You might be spraying too close?

Try to keep the can at least a foot or more away and hopefully this will help get a more even coat. This may give any big blobs of paint time to fall to ground before hitting your figure.


I did keep it about a foot away, and sprayed from sides mostly with only a bit of downward spray. The grain seems to be worse at the base of the figures. Look at the serpent man's tail, it is much rougher than at the top of the figure. Not sure what that tells me. Maybe I was too far away? By the time the paint reached the base it was already dry?
 
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Nick Storm
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Make sure your spray can is stored inside your house. I like my cans to be room temperature. 50 degrees is 'cold' for painting.

and as stated above,BEFORE painting, take an old toothbrush and some dish soap and scrub those guys and rinse well and dry thoroughly.
 
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So to recap what everyone has said (and a few other things):

d10-1 Keep your cans at room temperature.
d10-2 Wash your miniatures with dish soap and water (using a toothbrush)
d10-3 Do the shake dance with a can (at least 1-2 minutes. That's a long time shaking a can!)
d10-4 Don't spray too close
d10-5 Don't spray too vertically (downward).
d10-6 Start off from the miniature and spray past the miniature. In general, try spraying in the same direction. Only move your can in a horizontal movement. For all other movements, move your miniature rather than your spray can.

d10-7 If the first layer doesn't cover completely, you're better off waiting for it to dry (usually a few minutes) and apply another (quick) layer than to try to correct this immediately by adding another layer while it's wet.
d10-8 If all else fails, test your humidity level or get a dehumidifier
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Alternatively, get a brush on primer and skip the whole deal. Vallejo sells great brush on primer in their Surface Primer line; I use their grey 74.601 primer personally. It takes a little bit longer per model because you can't just assembly line them like you can with a spray, but the only thing to worry about are bubbles and that can be handled by just not overapplying primer. You will still need to clean the model with soap and water first, of course.

Spray primers are cantankerous bastards; take matters into your own hands with brush on.
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Here is some advice from Logan, UT. I'm not sure where you are, but here the air is extremely dry, and havent had temperatures above 20 degrees in a couple weeks.

I exclusively use P3 spray-on primers for my minis. I have had equally good luck with both their white and black primer.

I have a cardboard box that I will set my minis in, on a spare piece of cardboard (as a platform for rotating them without touching the minis). I take the box outside and spray about 3 passes from a foot away, rotate the platform 90 degrees, repeat for each side. For exceptionally tall minis, or those with weird bits sticking out, sometimes I'll do a pass directly down onto them.

I immediately then take the box inside, and put it in another room to let the minis dry. After about an hour (when they can be touched without smearing) I move the minis out of the box, to keep them from sticking, and place them on a piece of printer paper, to let dry overnight.

I have absolutely zero balling, grit, or off textures that can be associated with these times of year. P3 primer is always very slightly tacky to the touch, as it is meant to adhere to the surface it is on, and to the paint placed on it. I highly recommend it.
 
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Mark Gatman

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Sounds like the paint is drying before it gets to the mini. May be that you are painting from too far away, or the air is too dry?
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David Boeren
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Duplicolor Sandable Black Primer is another good one, that's what most of the Privateer Press pro painters were using before they came out with their own brand.
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Chase Norton
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blackchance wrote:
Here is some advice from Logan, UT. I'm not sure where you are, but here the air is extremely dry, and havent had temperatures above 20 degrees in a couple weeks.


I actually live in Logan too, we should meet up and play some CW. Most my gaming buddies are in SLC, so finding 3+ people to play with has been difficult. I am dying to get some consistent play out of this awesome game!

Back to topic, last night I tried applying some sealer to the models to smooth out the texture, this worked extremely well and is a great fix. There is still some rough spots, but overall it feels much better.

I might have found another culprit in this issue. I checked my spray cans and I am using Krylon Black Primer - Super Matte. Maybe the super matte has more texture than the regular Matte?
 
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Anthony Stockseth
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I think I read somewhere about the krylon ultra matte left a weird texture. But, you can also takr sandpaper to it to smooth it down. I actually have a small set of metal files that I use for my minis that are great for that kind of thing. Mostly I use them to file off mould lines, and to cleanup after using Citadel Green Stuff (absolute magic in a pot, btw).
 
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