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Subject: So how well has it been holding up for you? rss

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Nick Clinite
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For those of you who have played this game many times now, how well has it been holding up? Is it getting old? Staying fresh? Finding methods to cheese the game and make it unfun?
 
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Vasilis
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I don't really have a problem with the game with one exception: It screams for a proper campaign mode.

The 'official' campaign mode is not really good. If the Overseer wins a single mission he wins the whole campaign is an old-school mechanic that offers nothing but frustration.

Imagine finding a willing group to play the campaign mode, they like the game and you schedule regular sessions and then during the 4th session the Commandos lose the mission, the Overseer wins the campaign and it's 'game over man, game over'. It's anticlimactic.

Moreover, the only thing that both campaign modes do is ramp up the difficulty, the don't really do anything more. The only advantage the commandos get when playing a campaign vs a single scenario is to keep the items they found. All other rule changes are for the Overseer's benefit, the one who can actually win the overall campaign via the 'sudden death' rule as I explained above.

I'd prefer a proper campaign mode, where each mission affects the next one and there is no "win all, or you lose the campaign" mechanic.

Other than that, the game plays very well as a stand-alone session game.


PS Unfortunately, I didn't find anything related to a campaign mode in the expansions overview blurp either so it seems it's not going to happen.
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Nick Clinite
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Bowmangr wrote:

Imagine finding a willing group to play the campaign mode, they like the game and you schedule regular sessions and then during the 4th session the Commandos lose the mission, the Overseer wins the campaign and it's 'game over man, game over'. It's anticlimactic.


Why not just have the Commandos replay the same mission again until they succeed, video-game style? I would think the Overseer should be more interested in winning a specific game, rather than winning the entire campaign and resetting the whole thing.

Bowmangr wrote:
I'd prefer a proper campaign mode, where each mission affects the next one and there is no "win all, or you lose the campaign" mechanic.

Other than that, the game plays very well as a stand-alone session game.


PS Unfortunately, I didn't find anything related to a campaign mode in the expansions overview blurp either so it seems it's not going to happen.


Would it be too hard for us to make our own using just the components given?
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Vasilis
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islan wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:

Imagine finding a willing group to play the campaign mode, they like the game and you schedule regular sessions and then during the 4th session the Commandos lose the mission, the Overseer wins the campaign and it's 'game over man, game over'. It's anticlimactic.


Why not just have the Commandos replay the same mission again until they succeed, video-game style? I would think the Overseer should be more interested in winning a specific game, rather than winning the entire campaign and resetting the whole thing.


You can do that but then again it wouldn't be a campaign anymore right?

Quote:
Bowmangr wrote:
I'd prefer a proper campaign mode, where each mission affects the next one and there is no "win all, or you lose the campaign" mechanic.

Other than that, the game plays very well as a stand-alone session game.


PS Unfortunately, I didn't find anything related to a campaign mode in the expansions overview blurp either so it seems it's not going to happen.


Would it be too hard for us to make our own using just the components given?


I've tried to home rule some campaign rules into the game but it is very difficult because the Overseer's victory condition is almost always to kill some Commandos. That makes it difficult to keep playing missions if the team is already dead. You can ofcourse say that they are 'incapacitated' somehow and they regain their Health on the next mission but as there is no solid continuity in place, you need to find unofficial ways for each mission to affect the next one to have it feel like a proper campaign.

If someone could bother making a proper campaign with bonuses and penalties after each mission but keeping the balance intact I'd like to try it.
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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I'm still hoping someone devises a co-op/solo AI deck. I have this and have yet to play.
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Frank Jones
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Bowmangr wrote:
... The only advantage the commandos get when playing a campaign vs a single scenario is to keep the items they found. All other rule changes are for the Overseer's benefit, ...


I thought this was the point of campaign mode. Since it's almost impossible for the overseer to win an individual mission against a skilled commando team, why would the commando team gain any advantages? I view the campaign mode as a way of saying to the commando team, "Okay, you can win the individual missions, even though crisis point is reached on most of them. But can you win when Crisis point looms larger as a result of moving too slowly through the earlier missions?"

Rule changes SHOULD benefit the overseer. The overseer, under normal rules, is at a tremendous disadvantage against a commando team that knows what it is doing.
 
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Nick Clinite
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Huh, I guess I had a different concept of what makes a campaign. I mean, if the game got easier if the commandos win, well, that doesn't sound very rewarding to me. I'd rather a game continually get challenging the further in a campaign you go regardless, with character abilities expanding or more rules being introduced to make the game more complex and interesting.

AronFJenks wrote:

Rule changes SHOULD benefit the overseer. The overseer, under normal rules, is at a tremendous disadvantage against a commando team that knows what it is doing.


Umm ... that sounds like a pretty significant flaw to this game.
 
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klkitchens wrote:
I'm still hoping someone devises a co-op/solo AI deck. I have this and have yet to play.

Do what I do: Randomly shuffle up the room stacks and place them wherever (with exception to objective rooms of course). Then to the best of your ability, try to kill the other side

The only thing that suffers are the use of interrupts. I can't keep it all together to remember to do all those properly since there can be a lot going on for 1 person.
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Frank Jones
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islan wrote:
Huh, I guess I had a different concept of what makes a campaign. I mean, if the game got easier if the commandos win, well, that doesn't sound very rewarding to me. I'd rather a game continually get challenging the further in a campaign you go regardless, with character abilities expanding or more rules being introduced to make the game more complex and interesting.

AronFJenks wrote:

Rule changes SHOULD benefit the overseer. The overseer, under normal rules, is at a tremendous disadvantage against a commando team that knows what it is doing.


Umm ... that sounds like a pretty significant flaw to this game.


Not necessarily (and definitely not, in my own opinion). In a game of such complexity, balance is difficult to attain.

Both the mission guide and the game creator suggest tweaking the rules in either direction if necessary. Some groups may find that the overseer seems to win every time, in which case they can and should adjust the rules accordingly.

My friend and I discovered that using 5 commandos with a well-executed approach presents too great a challenge for the overseer, so we made the appropriate adjustments.

I don't see this as a flaw. I think it's cool that the game has so many different ways it can be adjusted if need be.
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Christoffer Hansson
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We recently went back to O.P. after a long break for over a year mid campaign (mission 7 coming up). There has ben a lot of Imperial Assault during that break, but still everyone enjoyed the revisit. I think it is holding up, and now there is an expansion on the way so I am pumped to get going with this again =)

Concerning the campaign progress, we just continued to the next mission after a defeat for the commandos, the punnishment was no Kit point reward, alltho by now they all have their extra kitpoint anyway. Maybe a way to keep it exciting is that the group needs to decide who looses a kitpoint if they are defeated?
 
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Henrik Schmidt
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I think the games needs an overhaul with fixed LOS rules, a proper campaign and some expansions with more of everything.

It has lots of potential to become the best SciFi dungeon crawler with proper support. As a standalone it could not keep my interest as it is unbalanced und there is no real progression for the characters.
 
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Nick Clinite
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I read a lot on the problems of LOS, and I get the feeling they're not that big of a problem, and that I might actually end up really liking them. The board and the figures are meant to be an abstraction, and the LOS as they are seem to me at least simulate the complexities of getting a bead on somebody in a game like Counter Strike.
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