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Subject: Would the Battle Phase end after the attacking creature is removed? rss

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Alexander Sudibjo
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Would the Battle Phase end after the attacking creature is removed or would it continue to the rest of the steps?

For example: Player A attacks with a White Dragon (5/5). Player B casts Spike Trap (deal 5) after the attack step and before the blocker step. White Dragon dies. Would player B have any chance to play another card after the blocker step or would Battle Phase end immediately after priority is passed back to player A?

Note that I know that player B can play whatever card in addition to the Spike Trap during the window after attack step and before the blocker step so just assume there is some scenario where it's better for player B to wait to play things during blocker step instead of before blocker step (I can't think of a specific scenario atm).
 
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Good question! The answer's yes. From Nathan at White Wizard Games:

NathanWWG wrote:
Once your opponent has no attackers left (for any reason), the combat ends. This rare situation is implied but is not explicit in the rulebook, and will be expanded upon in future updates.


So if you have a card called "Awesome But Highly Specific Event", and if played after declare blockers it draws you 2 cards, gains 20 authority, and kills your opponent, but if your opponent keeps killing all your champions with events before she ever declares a blocker... then you can never use your Awesome Event.

EDIT: Nope! This was a mistake and Nathan's corrected/clarified it below as follows:

NathanWWG wrote:
We discussed this afterwards and I never updated the thread, and I have now fixed that.

If there are no attackers left, the rest of combat goes as listed in the rulebook. However, you can't block because there is nothing to block. (Just as if they only had unblockable champions, there would be no legal block to make.)
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Nándor Gáspár
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I think those steps won't be skipped.
Let's see a reasonable example:

I'm declaring an attacker. I have an attack buff event card in hand too, but I don't want to play it yet.
The defender plays nothing and doesn't declare a blocker.

In this case I still get the window to play cards after blockers were chosen. Since there are no blockers I'm definitely going to play my attack buff event.
After that the opponent will have still a chance to play something with the corresponding attributes (event card or ambush)


Update (based on greylag's answer)
Never mind. I missed that this stands for the attacker only.
 
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Marcio Ferreira
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Neokarasu wrote:
(I can't think of a specific scenario atm).


me neither, in fact if player B kills all attackers it doesn't seem to make difference to play spells before/after blocking phase, it would be merged into a single time window (does this makes sense?).


Unless player A cast some event after player B killed the attackers, then player B can play again some spells...

anyway there's already an official clarification above.
 
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This scenario miiiiiiiiiiight come up in something like the following:

1. Attacker is attacking with a large breakthrough champion which has a lot of damage on it. Let's say a Burrowing Wurm with 13 damage counters on it (perhaps it's already been Konged this turn), meaning that 5 more damage will Break it.

2. Defender absolutely does not want this champion to survive to attack. She doesn't even want to Block it; she just wants it gone! So as soon as it attacks, she plays Spike Trap to kill it. No messing around, she doesn't want to see Attacker use a combat trick like Kalnor's Blessing to keep it alive.

3. Spike Trap's Recycle ability draws the Defender a Feint. Now, Defender happens to have a couple of creatures with neat Expend powers (let's say, Hunting Raptors and Time Master), and this new card gives her an idea.


4. Defender would like to declare Hunting Raptors and Time Master as Blockers, use their Expend powers to do cool stuff, then Feint to withdraw them both from combat and prepare them, ready to use their Expend powers again later that turn (how can she use Kong and Feint in a single turn? Time Master).

5. But because of what we've discussed here, Defender can't do that. The combat ended as soon as she did her Spike Trap. She's not allowed to declare Blockers since there's now, immediately, no Battle in progress. Actually, see clarifications above/below, it's true that Defender can't do this, but the reason is different. The combat continues and completes as normal. But Defender can't declare any blockers because there's nothing to block - blockers have to be declared against Champions, and there's no Champions. Just like you can't "do 3 damage to a target" if there's no target.

6. She'll have to hope Attacker attacks again so she can do her cool trick! Otherwise, she'll almost certainly still use those Expend abilities this turn, but she won't get to sneakily use them twice.

(To be honest, with two champions like that on the table and able to be confident to leave them unexpended, she's probably winning by a landslide already, but...)
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(can you tell I love coming up with stuff like this...? and can we also take a moment to appreciate now nicely calibrated champion defence values are? 4 and 3 are a common amount of damage in the game, Kong does 13, Burrowing Wurm, a big threat which you don't want to chump block, is just out of reach)
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Jo Bartok
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They are, especially 1 to 6 mean alot, then 9, 12 again as far as I know.
I LOVE how random this gane appears, when IT IS NOT!
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I get the 1-6 (various) and 9 (safe to Flamestrike, Raptor double bite) breakpoints. Where are you figuring 12 from? Safe to Lurking Giant ambush block, or is there something else?
 
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Ian Taylor
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greylag wrote:
Good question! The answer's yes. From Nathan at White Wizard Games:

NathanWWG wrote:
Once your opponent has no attackers left (for any reason), the combat ends. This rare situation is implied but is not explicit in the rulebook, and will be expanded upon in future updates.

So if you have a card called "Awesome But Highly Specific Event", and if played after declare blockers it draws you 2 cards, gains 20 authority,


I think gaining 20 Authority in Epic is a bit too strong. I don't think we would make this card.

Ian Taylor
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White Wizard Games
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Nathan Davis
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greylag wrote:
Good question! The answer's yes. From Nathan at White Wizard Games:

NathanWWG wrote:
Once your opponent has no attackers left (for any reason), the combat ends. This rare situation is implied but is not explicit in the rulebook, and will be expanded upon in future updates.


I am wrong.

We discussed this afterwards and I never updated the thread, and I have now fixed that.

If there are no attackers left, the rest of combat goes as listed in the rulebook. However, you can't block because there is nothing to block. (Just as if they only had unblockable champions, there would be no legal block to make.)

So the nifty complex example involving Feint wouldn't happen, because the Time Master and Hunting Raptors had not yet been declared as blockers.

- Nathan
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Andrew Kapish
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IanWWG wrote:
I think gaining 20 Authority in Epic is a bit too strong.
oh, you mean expended Time Master + Inner Peace x2 whistle
 
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Whoopsy! Thanks for clarifying, Nathan. I updated my posts. This way makes more sense and is much more strongly implied by the rules, I like this ruling! It also illuminates a bit how declaring blockers works; that they're declared "against" something, and if there's no "something" - no attackers - they can't be declared.
 
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Ian Taylor
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andrewkapish wrote:
IanWWG wrote:
I think gaining 20 Authority in Epic is a bit too strong.
oh, you mean expended Time Master + Inner Peace x2 whistle


It's better to just gain 20 Health. 20 Authority means that we have to bring spaceships into this, and that can get messy.

Ian Taylor
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IanWWG wrote:
andrewkapish wrote:
IanWWG wrote:
I think gaining 20 Authority in Epic is a bit too strong.
oh, you mean expended Time Master + Inner Peace x2 whistle


It's better to just gain 20 Health. 20 Authority means that we have to bring spaceships into this, and that can get messy.

Ian Taylor
Director of Organized Play
White Wizard Games


Does that mean that we are not getting a Star Realms/Epic cross over after all soblue
 
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Ian Taylor
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ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
IanWWG wrote:
andrewkapish wrote:
IanWWG wrote:
I think gaining 20 Authority in Epic is a bit too strong.
oh, you mean expended Time Master + Inner Peace x2 whistle


It's better to just gain 20 Health. 20 Authority means that we have to bring spaceships into this, and that can get messy.

Ian Taylor
Director of Organized Play
White Wizard Games


Does that mean that we are not getting a Star Realms/Epic cross over after all soblue


I remember once asking "Wouldn't it be cool if Star Realms and Epic were set in the same universe?" and the only response I got was "Sir, please put your pants back on and leave the library immediately".

So...no.

Ian
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Alexander Sudibjo
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greylag wrote:
(can you tell I love coming up with stuff like this...? and can we also take a moment to appreciate now nicely calibrated champion defence values are? 4 and 3 are a common amount of damage in the game, Kong does 13, Burrowing Wurm, a big threat which you don't want to chump block, is just out of reach)


The original situation that prompted my question was player B drawing Ceasefire off the Spike Trap recycle and whether player B can cast it before player A can declare another attacker. Of course, we figured out that player B can since player B retains priority to cast any number of things until priority is passed back so that solved our issue.

A convoluted scenario that comes to mind is if player A makes a mistake and decides to play something with Ambush and Blitz during the declare blocker step, then player B has a chance to "respond" with Ceasefire during that step. But of course this is just a play mistake since player A can just play things during the main phase and avoid giving player B a chance to respond.
 
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