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Subject: Duel hawks!? rss

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uriah neve
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I have thought about this for sometime what are thoughts about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxv8_mPQ1I4
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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Embedding the video so I can see it at work.
 
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Chris Brown
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Not gonna lie, my first impression is that it's a pretty weak list. Now before you get defensive let me explain. The fringer isn't seen often, blaster turret isn't seen often, and 2 HWKs isn't seen often. They're not seen often because there are better options.

With that out of the way, I love me some HWKs and you said yourself it's 5-0. I can't argue with results. So I started going through common builds to see how I would play against it.

TIE Swarm - Ok, lets just get this out of the way. TIE Swarm is going to eat this alive. Any decent Howlrunner+academy or Black-crack list is going to crush you. Action denial against blaster turrents spells death. You can prolly remove a TIE per turn with that HLC, but after the initial pass, getting your ships free of the action denial and range 1 murder is going to be difficult.

Palpmobile+Aces - Any good pilot is going to be able to keep at range 3 or inside range 1 against your list. This means you need to do some fancy flying to get shots. Fortunately you have the punch to get hits on Vader/Soontir and fire before Whisper/Echo. You have to kill one as fast as possible. This matchup is quite doable. I'd like to see how it plays out.

Poe + whatever - Beware of a stressbot. Those HWKs without actions are worthless. Like with the last list, you have the power to put a hurt on Poe really quick.

Brobots - an HLC brobot list is going to kill a HWK each round of shooting. I'm not sure you can reciprocate and kill a bot in 2 rounds. This would be a tough matchup for you. Really not sure how you would manage to pull it off.

Stress builds - Be it BWings with tactician, stressbot, or KWings with tactician. Stress is going to make this list cry. Those HWKs with stress are worthless and a YT-Donut with stress is predictable so you can get in range 1 easily. It's not impossible, just know how you're going to deal with it when it hits the other side of the table.

TLT Lists - If you get all three of your ships firing each round you could have this. You would need to drop a ship every other round at least to keep the damage away. It's all up to the dice at that point.

I guess the only problem I have with your list is that it's one ship away from falling apart. Loss the HLC donut and you lose lots of power and range. Loss roark and you're getting shot first. Loss Jan and more potential firepower is lost.

I like the list, it looks fun. Do I think it will be competitive in the long run? No. It's got 1 too many bad matchups that it will likely encounter in a big event. The thing about big winning lists is that it's well rounded and at its worst matchup has a coinflip chance of winning. I don't see that here. But like I said, it looks fun and I might bust this out at my store championship practice nights just to throw people off kilter.

Props to you for building something that is not only way far away from the current meta, but also at first glance looks incredibly weak. It has potential especially against an opponent who underestimates it. Work on your opening strategy against some of these meta lists and you might have a fighting chance.

Possible list change suggestions (while keeping the core of the list). I might consider dropping HLC for Mangler. That gives you 3 points to work with. I would then upgrade the blaster on Jan to a TLT. That removes the bubble. At that point Recon Specialist is kind of excessive on Jan. You could trade her out for Chewbacca on the Fringer for extra survivability or Moldy Crow on Roark to bank those focuses eliminating the fear of stress or bumping. Or Predator on Jan which is always good with TLT. Lots of options available with those 4 extra points. The big downside is that you don't have the 5 die HLC. Though a 4 die Mangler isn't anything to laugh at. Ooh, or Wired on Jan since she'll be stressed right at PS12. Like I said, lots of options.

Here's my idea...
Roark Garnet (29)
HWK-290 (19), Blaster Turret (4), Recon Specialist (3), Moldy Crow (3)

Jan Ors (32)
HWK-290 (25), Wired (1), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Wild Space Fringer (39)
YT-2400 Freighter (30), “Mangler” Cannon (4), Outrider (5)
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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TLT HWKs with Recon Specialist and possibly a Stealth Device are fairly annoying if you have multiples of them. They need to cover each other's blind spots and are best at range 3. 3 to 4 green dice with one or two focus tokens helps the survivability.
 
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David Pontier
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I had a really good 2 HWK list that I flew back in the day. I won one tournament with it and almost took it to the Chicago Regionals two years ago, but changed my mind after it suffered a bad loss and my back up list performed really well.

It was:
Jan + Ion + Squad Leader
Roark + Ion
Blue squad x2

This list caught people completely off guard. It has two Ion cannons for control, Jan can pass an action so one of the B-wings can have TL+F each turn plus he gets promoted to a 12 and fires 4-5 dice. If the enemy went after the HWKs first then the B-wings did lots of damage and if you go after the B-Wings first, then the Ion cannons would make life difficult. I had good success with this against Soontir by promoting Roark's Ion cannon to 4 dice and giving him TL+F. This was before Auto Thrusters though. This list completely murdered Phantoms.

This list was also before TLT, though I don't know that I would change it.

I also build a Scum list that I tried out last night with 2 HWKs.
Palob+Blaster Turret+Opportunist+K4 Security Droid
Torkhill+TLT+Recon Specialist
Latts+K4+Weapons Engineer+Tactician

Palob can do a green, get a TL, then focus for his action. Then steal a focus from someone so he has 2 focus tokens and a TL. Then he can use opportunist against the ship he stole the focus from and fire his Blaster turret with 4 dice with TL+F. And all of that is self contained within his ship. Even if he crashes, he can still get a TL+F each turn.

Torkhill is simply the opposite of Roark. But Roark promotes one person to 12. So if you are going against a phantom, you get one ship that shoots at it before it cloaks. With Torkhill, all your ships can shoot at it before it cloaks.

And Latts is just there to boost the effectiveness of the HWKs by reducing the defense of the enemy. Plus with a 180 arc, tactician, and 3-4 attack dice, he is no slouch either.

I'm not completely sold on Latts and he is 41 points that could be spent on a beefed up Guri or 3 Head hunters or Talonbane or a Mandolorian Mercenary or some other combo of ships.
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uriah neve
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Thank you all very much for your comments they have given me much to think about. When the scum first came put I loved Palob because it gave the hawk teeth which till then was only thought of with pure support. I do have a scum build which I will put up also at some point.

Killerarvak: How do u embed video? sure for stupid question am not very good with pc's lol better with table top games.

Michael Van Biesbrouck: I did place stealth device on Palob one time and flew him with Kavil and tricked them both out. I did not win the event but had people make comments as to how stupid it was till with leech and body guard they felt Palob might!! lol

David Pontier: I like your list and find it interesting, u think running the 2 blues with hawks having just tlts would be better??
 
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David Pontier
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jbuzzsaw79 wrote:
David Pontier: I like your list and find it interesting, u think running the 2 blues with hawks having just tlts would be better??


The TLTs do more damage, but the biggest problem the HWKs face is that they if they get shot twice from a powerful ship, they die. I flew this list back when 4-ship rebel lists were popular. In order to beat 4 ships with 3-4 attack dice was with Ion cannons. Ionize them at range 2, and then fly along side and behind them so they can't shoot you as you continue to ionize them. Because of this I could isolate half their squad and easily deal with the other half before turning to finish the first ships off.

For whatever reason, 4-ship rebel lists aren't that popular anymore. I think they are powerful, and thanks to Paul Heaver winning worlds with one, maybe they will come back. Until then maybe control isn't that important anymore. But my fear with TLTs on a HWK is that they are the least maneuverable small ship in the game, so it is very easy to into range 1 against them and stay there.

Also, regeneration ships like Poe and Corran are very popular. So if you do 1-2 damage to them with a TLT, they don't care so much as long as they can get into range 1 the next turn and blow you up. But if you ionize them, especially when they are stressed, it is probably game over for them.

Also, by losing Jan's Squad leader, you lose significant damage when rolling 5 attack dice with one of the B-wings if they have to do so without both TL and F.
 
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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jbuzzsaw79 wrote:
Killerarvak: How do u embed video? sure for stupid question am not very good with pc's lol better with table top games.
There's a button in the formatting section for youtube. It's red and says "Tube". If you click that it will add a youtube tag. You then add the alphanumeric code for the video. Here's what it looks like ['youtube=Bxv8_mPQ1I4] <-- remove the ' mark. You can hit "quote" on my post to see it in there. BGG handles all the hard work for you. Just have to get the video code.
 
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uriah neve
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thanks that helps I tried to get it so i can almost run a channel maybe for youtube lol. Thought it might be fun.
 
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uriah neve
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Would any one remove jan/roark for kyle?
 
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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jbuzzsaw79 wrote:
Would any one remove jan/roark for kyle?
Meh, with recon specialist there is plenty of focus to be had. Kyle is really good for handing off focus for people who need the extra action economy. I don't see anything in this list that is screaming for an extra focus unless you get really desperate for one in the late game with your blaster turrets. Roark will help with high PS aces and will crush phantoms. Worth keeping around I think.
 
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randall fischer

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I appreciate a lot of these tactics and discussion threads...however, the slang and over use of abbreviations tends to alienate new players who have no idea what any of you are talking about. Abbreviations are fine. Just spell it out once. Slang is fine. Just maybe explain what you're actually talking about once. The initial reply made little sense to me, and I've played for years. We call things what they are...not brobots, donuts, impmobile, ect. I figured it out, but in the interest of helping newer players and folks looking for advice, we probably shouldn't assume everyone is up on all the local store and Internet jargon.
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uriah neve
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ChaplainCassius wrote:
I appreciate a lot of these tactics and discussion threads...however, the slang and over use of abbreviations tends to alienate new players who have no idea what any of you are talking about. Abbreviations are fine. Just spell it out once. Slang is fine. Just maybe explain what you're actually talking about once. The initial reply made little sense to me, and I've played for years. We call things what they are...not brobots, donuts, impmobile, ect. I figured it out, but in the interest of helping newer players and folks looking for advice, we probably shouldn't assume everyone is up on all the local store and Internet jargon.


I agree and forget about it myself as I think most people do, since we have been doing it for sometime. I will try to remeber this myself when I prepare more videos and discussion on things.
 
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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I just wish we could have a sticky thread of terms that new people could use to look up. Personally I don't want to spell out Twin Laser Turret the first time I use it in every thread because we're talking about it so damn often. I get that it creates a barrier to entry and I'd like to say that I'll try to be clearer on things, but I'd be surprised if I remember. It's like telling my dentist I'm going to floss more. Yeah, for like a week, but I'll get lazy and forget.
 
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