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Subject: Balance? rss

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Mitchell Lurcook
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How is this? Last I saw Angry Joe played this and the Marines seemed under powered with the Predators being WAY over powered.

How is the balance?
 
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Martin Larouche
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WolfVonhinslik wrote:
How is this? Last I saw Angry Joe played this and the Marines seemed under powered with the Predators being WAY over powered.

How is the balance?


What seems to come out is that they are pretty well balanced...

However, they each require drastically different play-styles. Some are easier to figure out than others.

So the balance depends on the play-style of players, how the map is presented and what the objectives are for a current scenario.
For example, if the Preds need to cross the map twice... the Aliens might just need to kill a few units, split amongst marines and preds. Next game, it might be the opposite, so who's to say who got it easier? Try to stop aliens coming from everywhere from getting to their objective with just 3 pred units? Or just try to survive getting through their numbers?

If you play just to kill everyone, then yeah... preds might have an easier time since you ignore part of their one weakness playing like that: their low number and low number of activations per turn. This is crucial when playing for an objective.

This game shines at 3 players. At 3 it's self-balancing whatever the mission objectives are. At 2, some missions can be unbalanced...
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Rod Mitchell
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WolfVonhinslik wrote:
How is this? Last I saw Angry Joe played this and the Marines seemed under powered with the Predators being WAY over powered.

How is the balance?


Last I saw Angry Joe was well on his way to being completely hammered when they did their run through. They also had done very little to prepare for it, self admiting they made several rules based mistakes. Playing a game one time will not tell you how balanced it is. It may very well be unbalanced, I have yet to play it, but making a judgement about something you've done once, whilst intoxicated, hardly counts. I think as with any game, it will take a couple of run throughs and re-reads of the rules to get it right. My $0.02.
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Drew Bishop
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My girlfriend bought me the game for Christmas, and we played the first mission of the campaign after I read through the rulebook!

The only issue the two of us had was that we actually added a second strength test AFTER rolling RS or CC. (We were huge fans of Fantasy and 40k, so this to us felt tried and true as far as GW standards, but is not true for the core ruleset.)

Having said that, I feel the balance in the game is actually quite great. At first when we played a skirmish mission or two, the Predators seemed immensely overpowered. Then we learned you can't shoot into CC without negatives to your RS, and we also discovered that while you're engaged you cannot use ranged weapons too!

With those two things in mind the Predators become a lot less deadly, and much more "hit and run" models like in the films.

With the core set of Alien Infants and Stalkers, I tried to place them as strategically as possible (leaving 1-2 ping! tokens in key areas that the Predators and Marines were trying to get into) while clogging up key passageways for the marines and Predators to try and chew through.

I had heard the marines were easy to take down unless they stuck together, and I came into the game knowing that. They may be one of the most powerful factions if only for the reason that they can pull any other marine model off a tile if one of them dies!

Though to be fair I lost 2 of them really quickly to some bad dice! It seemed the Aliens were going to overwhelm me, until the Predator player began getting their objectives, and both of us were like "oh man we need to deal with this quick!"

The special abilities were great- we had some acid blood tokens on tiles, the marines got to seal off a vent, and another was able to make a door, shutting off the other 4 Aliens from getting to them... and they got to blow up a Predator with SMART gun fire and a grenade!

The Aliens really slowed the Predators down. The Stalkers were acutally able to stay alive longer thanks to Dodge, which was pretty fun and fluffy for their size and speed.

We walked away from that first mission super happy. It wasn't really competitive as it was fun to come up with a more coherent story around the mission objectives (apparently Prodos was going to have one, but FOX shut them down)

The one Issue I had was that the Aliens have no RS whatsoever! This has since been mitigated by the buying of Alien Warriors (which are incredible by the way, 2 wounds with CC 17 ROA 4 AND an Acid Spit attack? Yes please!!)

I plan on playing again tonight with her as I also just got the powerloader.

But yes, it looks like the models skills and abilities match each faction very well, and while some models seem overpowered, if you really walk through the rules for each weapon specifically, it's very easy to discover that all three factions have an edge over the other (don't forget the -4 bennefits from the tiles either!)
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Martin Larouche
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Quote:

Though to be fair I lost 2 of them really quickly to some bad dice! It seemed the Aliens were going to overwhelm me, until the Predator player began getting their objectives, and both of us were like "oh man we need to deal with this quick!"


And this quote here is the reason this game is perfectly balanced.

As I said previously, this game at 3 players is self-balancing.
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Mitchell Lurcook
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So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.

 
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Rocy7 POL
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WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?
 
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Rod Mitchell
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Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...
 
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Martin Larouche
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Grumpae wrote:
Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...


None of this rant answers his question, and is completely off-topic.
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Martin Larouche
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Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


I'd say if you are an AvP fan, then yes... it's a good game with 2. The maps will feel a tad too large with only 2 players and some mission objectives / map layouts might provoke unbalanced scenarios between factions.

I don't mind the unbalance in those cases, but your tolerance to it might vary.
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Rod Mitchell
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deedob wrote:
Grumpae wrote:
Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...


None of this rant answers his question, and is completely off-topic.


Not a rant, but actually a much better answer than what you have provided. Perhaps you should re-read my answer? Either way, I was trying to give a complete answer.
 
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Martin Larouche
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Grumpae wrote:
deedob wrote:
Grumpae wrote:
Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...


None of this rant answers his question, and is completely off-topic.


Not a rant, but actually a much better answer than what you have provided. Perhaps you should re-read my answer? Either way, I was trying to give a complete answer.


He asks if the gameplay is good with only 2 players...
You answer about component quality and company attitude with kickstarter backers, none of which has anything to do with the gameplay with 2 players, nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic which is about game balance.

Seriously, do we need every single topic turned into a rant about kickstarter?
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gary gee
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Grumpae wrote:
Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...


Strange ??...ive had no problems at all assembling my miniatures.and that includes the addons ive bought since release of the game !!..as ive said on this and another one or two forums...these are the most detailed minis ive ever seen..and ive got quite a lot of games.ask anyone who has the game about the quality of the minis..awesome..ive had no sagging or anything off mine?.
as for the longevity of the game there are more minis plus a full expansion out this year...it was part of the contract they made with Fox..so,its not like they will just walk away.its legally binding


oh,to answer the OP question..the game can be easily played with 2 players.just use the factions you want..its that easy
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Rod Mitchell
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deedob wrote:
Grumpae wrote:
deedob wrote:
Grumpae wrote:
Rocy7 wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
So its basically Chaos in the old world way of balance. Make all the players have there own way thats overpowered and relies on the players to keep everything balanced? CitOW is one of my favorite games.



So for 2 players in not worth buying?


This is one of the those how can we even give one answer for this type of question, questions. I would say that unless you are a huge AvP fan, have been waiting for these type of minis for a long long time, and are willing to put in some - a lot of work, this game is not for you.

The minis are all multi part, resin (of questionable quality, ie: sagging, melting at room temperature, etc.)that will require above average work to assemble and paint. The rules seem to need work (can't verify as I don't yet have mine), and if so that will take time and patience, which has run out for many of us. There is an extremely limited range of minis available for it, many of the original are still yet to be seen even.

Finally Prodos themselves. Do they deserve your money? How have they treated their backers / late pledgers? How reliable are they, and what is their history of customer service? How invested are they themselves in the product line? How much longevity can we believe that they have?

So again, I say, that unless this is something that you have "always" wanted, are willing to put in a lot of work, and have tremendous patience, you should probably stay away from this game. At least for now. I recommend a wait and see attitude. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, and turn things around. Maybe rainbow colored monkeys will fly out of my butt...


None of this rant answers his question, and is completely off-topic.


Not a rant, but actually a much better answer than what you have provided. Perhaps you should re-read my answer? Either way, I was trying to give a complete answer.


He asks if the gameplay is good with only 2 players...
You answer about component quality and company attitude with kickstarter backers, none of which has anything to do with the gameplay with 2 players.

Seriously, do we need every single topic turned into a rant about kickstarter?


This will be my last entry on this post. Seriously, you need to improve your reading comprehension. Where I in fact ranting, there probably would have been some exclamation points, and full caps. If you were to re-read my original post, you will notice the complete absence of both of those.

My answer, covered the fact that there is no easy on answer to the question. There are serveral factors that need to be considered. My answer basically covered all the things that need to be considered. Being a big fan would help a person overcome a lot of the obsticles that stand between a solo/two player/or three player scenario. I then listed those obsticles. That is all.
 
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Rocy7 POL
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tootz wrote:
oh,to answer the OP question..the game can be easily played with 2 players.just use the factions you want..its that easy


I know that, the question is still is the game will be somehow balance itself? Most of previos comments describe this game as 3 players self-balance, when any faction influence other.

If we will play only with Predators aganist humans if this still can be fun? If lack of any faction can make some scenario easier for other?

(I do not want a ideal balance etc, rather feeling that anyone have equal chances to win.).

 
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Martin Larouche
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Quote:
 If lack of any faction can make some scenario easier for other? 


The answer is yes.

However, the missions cards can provide you with hundreds of possible combination of maps and objectives for the players. You can find the more balanced ones to your taste and play those.

Marines have the range advantage over the predators... so long corridors favor them. So preds will not always decimate them. If the objective is to cross the preds and you have no choice but go into close range against them because of the map layout, it's going to favor the preds.
If the pred objective can be prevented by camping a narrow long corridor... then the marines will have the advantage.

So it's impossible to say all situations provided by the game will be balanced.
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while you're engaged you cannot use ranged weapons

Wow, were in the rulebook does it state that?
 
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Martin Larouche
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markmc wrote:



while you're engaged you cannot use ranged weapons

Wow, were in the rulebook does it state that?


This is somewhat open to interpretation.

In the ranged section about combat:
Target an enemy Model. The targeted enemy Model must be in LOS of the Model performing the Shooting Action.

And the definition of LOS:
A Ping! Token or a Model has Line of Sight (LOS) of an opposing player’s Ping! Token or Model if any of the players can draw a straight, unblocked line between the centres of two occupied by a Ping! Token or Model Tiles.

Meaning you cannot shoot a ranged weapon against a unit on the same tile as you, as you only have 1 tile to trace LOS.
However, you could shoot out of your tile.

In any case, if you interpret that the LOS rule is just poorly worded and that you can shoot against an opponent in your own tile, then you would still get the crazy hard -10 difficulty because your opponent is engaged (at least with you).

So any way you interpret it, there isn't much difference as far as the game goes.
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deedob wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
How is this? Last I saw Angry Joe played this and the Marines seemed under powered with the Predators being WAY over powered.

How is the balance?


What seems to come out is that they are pretty well balanced...

I'm very interested in hearing more of your thoughts here because in my experience it's not even close. The Predators completely outclass the Aliens.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, because if I'm not I've wasted a fair amount of money on the product.

I could see this working in a 3-player mode if the Aliens and Marines collaborate, or two player Predators vs Marines, but 2-player with Aliens vs Predators? Fuggettaboutit...

The Predators have very good ranged attacks and so the Aliens are going to lose 2-4 units before they even close with the Predators. Assuming they actually do get close, in the scenarios that use 3 Predators (the 1st two we've played), the aliens can only get two units into the same square as the Predators. Then they have to deal with the Predators incredible armor values. The Predators are *very* likely to save against any attacks. So the two aliens die to close combat and then a couple more die to ranged attacks. Rinse and repeat.

Of course the Predators can temporarily break up their "triangle of death" to send the Predator with the combi-stick into whatever "Alien Pack" happens to be within range. He gets three attacks, with a better than 50-50 chance of killing an alien with each swing. If the other two aliens shot into the pack first, it's likely that the excursion will eliminate 4-5 aliens. Cards could change things, but I suspect that there are just as many cards that favor the Predators as favor the Aliens.

It's just suicide for the Aliens to take on the Predators in straight up combat. Now, I know that the scenarios are supposed to somehow play to the strength of the Aliens' numbers, but the two scenarios that we played didn't seem to. The Predators were never under a lot of pressure to split up and could easily bottleneck an alien objective by simply sticking together.

I can't see how the Aliens have much hope in this game, and I really have no desire to play it again, based on my experiences so far.
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To be honest, I think it comes down to the skewed points cost that Prodos wrote up. I don't feel like they actually even playtested it at all. If you consider that straight out of the box the aliens are at close to 200 points and so are the Predators it's just wrong. The infant aliens should NOT cost 2 points more than the Marines but probably more like 5 points each to be honest. The stalkers really don't feel like they should be 15 points either. Maybe make them 10 points each (which is generous, I feel). As such, the aliens should only have about 100 points, so at most 1 predator warrior & 1 young blood rather than 2 warriors & a hunter). Additionally, there really should be a rule for multiple aliens of the same type acting as one rather than as separate entities but that's another discussion.

Try it out using 3 young bloods or 1 & a warrior instead, see if that's more balanced?
 
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to me,it depends how the aliens are played...they have 2 distinct advantages..more numbers more attacks..i think well,know you will lose some at first...but once both the marines and predators have had their turns.and you haven't lost many aliens then you have a possibility of up to 10 extra moves/attacks.my friend plays aliens very well and uses his swarm tactics which are a real pain
 
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armor_11 wrote:
deedob wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
How is this? Last I saw Angry Joe played this and the Marines seemed under powered with the Predators being WAY over powered.

How is the balance?


What seems to come out is that they are pretty well balanced...

I'm very interested in hearing more of your thoughts here because in my experience it's not even close. The Predators completely outclass the Aliens.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, because if I'm not I've wasted a fair amount of money on the product.

I could see this working in a 3-player mode if the Aliens and Marines collaborate, or two player Predators vs Marines, but 2-player with Aliens vs Predators? Fuggettaboutit...

The Predators have very good ranged attacks and so the Aliens are going to lose 2-4 units before they even close with the Predators. Assuming they actually do get close, in the scenarios that use 3 Predators (the 1st two we've played), the aliens can only get two units into the same square as the Predators. Then they have to deal with the Predators incredible armor values. The Predators are *very* likely to save against any attacks. So the two aliens die to close combat and then a couple more die to ranged attacks. Rinse and repeat.

Of course the Predators can temporarily break up their "triangle of death" to send the Predator with the combi-stick into whatever "Alien Pack" happens to be within range. He gets three attacks, with a better than 50-50 chance of killing an alien with each swing. If the other two aliens shot into the pack first, it's likely that the excursion will eliminate 4-5 aliens. Cards could change things, but I suspect that there are just as many cards that favor the Predators as favor the Aliens.

It's just suicide for the Aliens to take on the Predators in straight up combat. Now, I know that the scenarios are supposed to somehow play to the strength of the Aliens' numbers, but the two scenarios that we played didn't seem to. The Predators were never under a lot of pressure to split up and could easily bottleneck an alien objective by simply sticking together.

I can't see how the Aliens have much hope in this game, and I really have no desire to play it again, based on my experiences so far.


Read further comments.

You are right, predators can wipe the aliens.

However, if you play within a mission structure... it's a different story. The aliens have a much easier time to reach a room and carry an item than the other races. Try to stop the alien runners coming from three directions with the preds... good luck. You'll find these scenarios of Alien VS Preds unbalanced in favor of the aliens.

As mentionned, if you play to kill everyone... the preds have a slight advantage. If you play for mission objectives... it's a different story.
 
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Tim McCormley
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deedob wrote:

As mentionned, if you play to kill everyone... the preds have a slight advantage. If you play for mission objectives... it's a different story.

Hasn't been in the two games I've played. The Preds can easily block Alien objectives in the first two scenarios, as far as I can tell. I think the 2nd scenario actually requires the Aliens to kill something to claim a trophy, if memory serves.

Re: "slight" Pred advantage. No offense, but this must be a use of the word "slight" that I'm not familiar with. The Predator advantage in combat is overwhelming. Barring the vagaries of luck, the Aliens have no chance against the Predators.

Edit: add comment about "slight" advantage.
 
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Tim McCormley
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Ok, remember when I said that I hoped we were doing something wrong?

Well, facepalm time...

It turns out that I was using the wrong stat lines for the aliens. I had assumed that the "smaller" models were the "Infant Aliens," and the larger models were the Stalkers. Oops. blush

So there are actually 10 fairly tough "Infant Aliens," not 4. As one might expect...that changes things.

Now, the Predators might still be overpowered, that smart disc and combi-stick are pretty nasty, but at least they're not INSANELY overpowered.

Time to play again.

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Martin Larouche
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armor_11 wrote:
Ok, remember when I said that I hoped we were doing something wrong?

Well, facepalm time...

It turns out that I was using the wrong stat lines for the aliens. I had assumed that the "smaller" models were the "Infant Aliens," and the larger models were the Stalkers. Oops. blush

So there are actually 10 fairly tough "Infant Aliens," not 4. As one might expect...that changes things.

Now, the Predators might still be overpowered, that smart disc and combi-stick are pretty nasty, but at least they're not INSANELY overpowered.

Time to play again.



This makes more sense.

4 aliens against a single pred in close combat (it's all about statistics):

- 2 attacks per turn with an alien with a single model result "roughly on average" in a single hit.
- if you have 4 aliens in close combat with the pred, it's 8 attacks, for an average of 4 hits.
- the preds will cancel... on average... 3 of those hits, meaning again on average, that 1 wound on the pred is going to be suffered.
- then the pred will attack... depending on the pred used to attack (if he's not the hunter), he will wound roughly 1 alien (again on average)...(which also has 25% chance to hit the pred just by dying).
- So statistically, over time, the pred will lose that match because of the alien bleeding.

So in close combat, a single pred is worth "roughly" 4 aliens. The alien player has 5 aliens for each predator model. Meaning they can lose 1 getting close to them. Which is around what they lose to long range attacks when closing in with a swarm.

Bottom line: they are well-balanced.

The tilt between them will come more from the map layout (lots of corners give an alien advantage while long corridors are a pred advantage) and even more so the mission objectives. If the aliens just need to go to a room and interact there they have a much easier time than preds to do it.
The aliens are especially nasty when they just need to stall an opponent from getting somewhere. They have troops to spare... Using a pred to stop an alien advance is pretty useless most of the time.

Also remember that the aliens will out-activate the preds all the time. Almost all of their troops will move AFTER the preds. Giving them a big advantage there.

Similarly, the marines can go easily against the preds. Two of the three preds suck at long range. The marines have the advantage there...Since the humans tend to gang together, they can statistically kill a pred in a single turn most of the times if the squad is together (remembering they can use an action to add +1 to their RoA by sacrificing a little accuracy).
And then the humans have a +4 defense to the close attacks of the preds almost all the time...
 
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