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Subject: An opening hand so good I forgot how to play this rss

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Alex
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I'm US playing with +2 influence


I'm gonna use 4-1-1-1 setup to the Mediterranean countries.
Since I'm holding decol to T2, the right move here is headlining Marshall and playing RS/P for ops, right?

This overload of no strings attached ops is now making me doubt if I should play RSP as an event too (HL, probably) to hurt him hard on coups and T1 expansion. But I'm almost sure rsp for ops is the wise move. With this draw, there's a big chance he's stuck with some scoring and 1OP. What do you think?

Also, where should I spent the 7h Marshall point? I'm undecided between benelux, for granted WG access, or directly into WG. This avoids WG getting controlled in a single AR, etc. But I kinda want to lure him into wasting points in a non dominable Europe.

I wish all my t1 dilemmas were like this. I even feel like filling up Canada at some point.
Now, it would be funny if he headlined Vietnam revolts and emptied Iran with duck & cover.
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Max DuBoff
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zosete wrote:
I'm US playing with +2 influence


I'm gonna use 4-1-1-1 setup to the Mediterranean countries.
Since I'm holding decol to T2, the right move here is headlining Marshall and playing RS/P for ops, right?

This overload of no strings attached ops is now making me doubt if I should play RSP as an event too (HL, probably) to hurt him hard on coups and T1 expansion. But I'm almost sure rsp for ops is the wise move. With this draw, there's a big chance he's stuck with some scoring and 1OP. What do you think?

Also, where should I spent the 7h Marshall point? I'm undecided between benelux, for granted WG access, or directly into WG. This avoids WG getting controlled in a single AR, etc. But I kinda want to lure him into wasting points in a non dominable Europe.

I wish all my t1 dilemmas were like this. I even feel like filling up Canada at some point.
Now, it would be funny if he headlined Vietnam revolts and emptied Iran with duck & cover.


He may not have a great hand, but if anything that's a better reason to Purge him. He'll have a really rough first turn, making it hard for hm to get into position to score before the deck starts tilting your way in Mid War. Further, you have enough ops that using a 4-op for the event won't put you behind for positioning.

This is much more of a personal style point than established strategy, but I generally oppose playing Marshall Plan as the US early in the game (and by extension opening placement in the Mediterranean). The US has a good chance of getting Europe domination anyway, and those 4 ops can be used toward positioning in ME and Asia. This idea is another reason to play Purge here as well.
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King in Green
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I agree with Marshall as the headline. Purge is likely inefficient and better played for ops with this hand, and if your opponent's hand is really bad they could resort to Romanian Abdication > Europe Scoring. I would probably go to Denmark instead of Belgium or WG as it increases your access in the unlikely event that you have to fight for Europe. Putting an op in WG is plausible but you can't put more than 1 in case you draw Blockade turn 2.
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Dan Likos
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I think I still set it up standard 4WG 3IT ... your setup screams Marshall Plan headline, and throws the whole defectors threat right out the door.

I think I would headline RS/P ... confidently allowing me to not spend both extra OPS in Iran, maybe even goading him into an attempted coup. Drop the 2nd extra influence into Italy...taking his ability to threaten with socialists as well.

So it might not be efficient... but it also might, there are plenty of 2+ Ops cards left in the deck. What it will be is crippling.

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King in Green
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Why does this set-up scream Marshall? It's pretty standard play even without Marshall. Also using 4/3 with Decol in your hand means that you'll likely have the decision of discarding Decol before the turn 3 reshuffle or losing your WG influence to Blockade at some point. If you do space decol then you'll have to be all over Africa/SE Asia before it comes back.
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Max DuBoff
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Paul Harding wrote:
Why does this set-up scream Marshall? It's pretty standard play even without Marshall. Also using 4/3 with Decol in your hand means that you'll likely have the decision of discarding Decol before the turn 3 reshuffle or losing your WG influence to Blockade at some point. If you do space decol then you'll have to be all over Africa/SE Asia before it comes back.


Because it's a bad setup without Marshall? With Marshall it's a matter of taste, but without Marshall there's a very good chance you'll never dominate Europe all game.
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King in Green
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I would disagree with you based on personal experience and the accounts of top players who also use open WG set-ups. It is possible to dominate Europe without a T1 Marshall, and it is also possible to win games of TS without trying to dominate Europe.
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Alex
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I've been playing this opening lately no matter what the cards and I find it a bit more convenient in the mid - run.

Let's say I open to WG and he plays blockade for any reason. I'll be forced to discard Warsaw (And I'd like to keep a 4 for later ARs early war) and waste an AR spacing decol and making it available for t3.

I think my friend/opponent Is not a frequent player. He just opened 3eg/3 poland/ 3 Bulgaria. With 4/1/1/1 and Marshall I nullify an Europe scoring HL. If he plays soc gov, then he needs to take away from 3 non BGs and score in ar1, giving me the initiative. Or contest WG.

Worst case crazy scenario he socs my 5 point Italy and coups there rolling a 6. I'd have to waste in France, but I have the ops.

Never realised Denmark gives access to WG and EG. Guess I chose benelux in case of tje weird special relations point. But his setup is inviting me to "waste" the Marshall ip in WG to avoid "easy" domination. Same dilemma ad I. The first post. Do I incite him to waste big points in Europe T1 in exchange for 4/5 VP?
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King in Green
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If your opponent is going 3/3/3 then nothing in Spain and 2 to Greece might be preferable depending on your hand.
 
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Dan Likos
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Paul Harding wrote:
Why does this set-up scream Marshall? It's pretty standard play even without Marshall. Also using 4/3 with Decol in your hand means that you'll likely have the decision of discarding Decol before the turn 3 reshuffle or losing your WG influence to Blockade at some point. If you do space decol then you'll have to be all over Africa/SE Asia before it comes back.


No matter your set up, you will need to hold decol. The only thing that would change this is if you are also lucky enough to draw Destal. Or do something stupid like play UN Intervention on something.

You control RS/P, so no worries about Blockade quite yet, just play Warsaw Pact last, and hold Decol.
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King in Green
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Blockade will cut your handsize, that's when you have to make a decision about whether to space Decol or lose 4 ips in WG. Decol you *maybe* can space depending on how Africa/SE Asia is going. Destal you usually hold and say bye bye to WG.
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Michael Valentine

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Set up WG 3, France 2, Italy 2, and headline Marshall (1 to Turkey, Greece, WG, France, Italy, UK, and Canada) to take immediate control of Europe. Hold WP in case of Blockade. If he uses Blockade, then you have to space Decol. If not, then WP for ops on AR6 and hold Decol. Everything else for ops.
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Michael Valentine

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dlikos wrote:
I think I still set it up standard 4WG 3IT ... your setup screams Marshall Plan headline, and throws the whole defectors threat right out the door.


What card would you as Soviets headline knowing that a USA Marshall headline is coming, but would not otherwise headline? The only two for me are Decol and possibly RS/P. Since both are in American hands, it shouldn't make a difference.
 
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Dan Likos
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MichaelVal wrote:
dlikos wrote:
I think I still set it up standard 4WG 3IT ... your setup screams Marshall Plan headline, and throws the whole defectors threat right out the door.


What card would you as Soviets headline knowing that a USA Marshall headline is coming, but would not otherwise headline? The only two for me are Decol and possibly RS/P. Since both are in American hands, it shouldn't make a difference.


Makes Suez a safe headline.
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Dan Likos
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Paul Harding wrote:
Blockade will cut your handsize, that's when you have to make a decision about whether to space Decol or lose 4 ips in WG. Decol you *maybe* can space depending on how Africa/SE Asia is going. Destal you usually hold and say bye bye to WG.


As long as I have a card to discard to blockade, I think I much prefer to discard it and space decol. If I lose my influence in WG, because I hold decol to space AND then also draw destal in turn 2, then I'm spacing decol anyway, as I can't hold them both.

The chances are too great that I get burned twice trying to be greedy holding back soviet cards.

Further, the soviet play of the China Card is very important in this discussion... if they play it turn 1 (which they might as their ops are low AND remember I RS/Ped them... ) I will likely have an extra card in turn 2.



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Christopher Yaure
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Perhaps I missed a reference to this in another thread, but are you asking advice for a game in progress? Absent an agreement with your opponent, that seems inappropriate to me.
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Michael Valentine

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dlikos wrote:
Makes Suez a safe headline.


If Suez is my best headline as Soviets (and it's a weak headline playing USA +2), then the threat of Defectors certainly won't deter me from headlining it.
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Michael Valentine

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I think you're wasting much of the power of Marshall using it on a 4-1-1-1 set up. If you're going to use that set up, then RS/P is the superior headline.
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Dan Likos
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MichaelVal wrote:
dlikos wrote:
Makes Suez a safe headline.


If Suez is my best headline as Soviets (and it's a weak headline playing USA +2), then the threat of Defectors certainly won't deter me from headlining it.


I know I will have a 67% shot at completely ousting my opponent from ME, if he dumps all influence into IRAN.

I could Headline DeGaulle, and take France AR1. Now all your work in Europe is for naught.

I will also admit, I typically play US+0, it really does change the game with US +2. You are right it weakens Suez headline by taking the for sure elimination of US from ME away. I am primarily a Vassal player and it is pretty standard fare to play random +0.












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Dan Likos
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MichaelVal wrote:
I think you're wasting much of the power of Marshall using it on a 4-1-1-1 set up. If you're going to use that set up, then RS/P is the superior headline.


Agreed. I thought that this is what I have been arguing for all along.

 
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Dan Likos
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dlikos wrote:
MichaelVal wrote:
I think you're wasting much of the power of Marshall using it on a 4-1-1-1 set up. If you're going to use that set up, then RS/P is the superior headline.


Agreed. I thought that this is what I have been arguing for all along.



But I would never EVER setup like this headlining RSP. Socialists would KILL me.
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Dr. Funktastic

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dlikos wrote:
I am primarily a Vassal player and it is pretty standard fare to play random +0.


Are you Dan L on vassal?
 
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Alex
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Moot point. I left the game on stand by until today and somehow thought i already had setup, so i play the setup ips as if they were marshall. Facepalm. Now im gonna face T1Ar1 with 2 ips in Italy and no other BG. Kinda deserve to lose this game.

To the fellow asking if im planning to play while asking for advice here. Nope. But it was a perfect (real) hand to discuss a RS/P case. My friend has played less than 10 games and hoped to learn from me. I already have one lesson. "Dont ever do that"
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Dan Likos
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Dr Funktastic wrote:
dlikos wrote:
I am primarily a Vassal player and it is pretty standard fare to play random +0.


Are you Dan L on vassal?


Indeed!
 
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Michael Valentine

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dlikos wrote:
I know I will have a 67% shot at completely ousting my opponent from ME, if he dumps all influence into IRAN.


I recoup Iran if it's 0/1 or 0/2 or, since I'm in Turkey after Marshall, just play into Syria if it's 0/0 or 0/3.

dlikos wrote:
I could Headline DeGaulle, and take France AR1. Now all your work in Europe is for naught.


Do that and I'll happily realign you +2 drm.
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