Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Shadowrun: Crossfire» Forums » Variants

Subject: Dynamic karma rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jimmy Bjorck
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
Karma (against the ancients, crossfire, freefire for all, crazy katies combat towing, pandemic)

My only complain is that you gain one karma for abort whenever you make it, which is a loophole, and that you dont lose karma wheb losing so here is how I play it:

Win = What is given (eg; crossfire 3p)

Abort = scene 1&2: damage control 0p
Scene 3: 1p

Fail = scene 1&2: -1p
Scene 3: 0p

Thematic one can say that failing in scene one and two takes a tow on your selfconfidence and thus lose one karma. However losing in third count as a learning process and oh so close feeling, lets do it next time feeling and therefore 0 points instead.

Karma treshold
You cant lose more karma than 0 and you cant lose karma more than what you have in upgrades. If you have two 5 karma upgrade, your new 0 (treshold) is 20 (5+5+10), and you cant go under that, no matter how many fails. If there are several runners with different karma, the one with the highest counts because he is the leader, and only he takes the hit cause he takes responsibility.

Karma scaling
Aborts:
as long win(points) > abort(points) = 1p

Win(point) <(or same) abort(point) = 0p

Does this make sense ?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dominic B
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This makes sense and is a nice idea to raise the difficulty.

Personally I think the game is already hard enough and collecting Karma is a very slow process, maybe it feels like that because I am still new to the game. Considering the fact that two third of my abort runs always go south I gladly stick with the original rules, I couldn't stand losing Karma above on all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure I agree that aborting a run is a 'loophole'.

I think I've had 2 successful aborts - ever.

Remember, you can't choose to just abort the run - one of your runners has already gone critical for whatever reason and someone else has to end with at least one hit point. Meanwhile, every obstacle is moving to face the current Runner.

Spending all that time to get *1* Karma isn't really a stretch. The players are learning something. They're getting better. They do "what if" experiments in their head.

They earned that Karma.

I'd certainly never remove Karma for any reason. The lost time is enough.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jimmy Bjorck
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
It's a loophole if you use it as one. Because you can abort in scene 1 and get one point, if you want to. Obviously you are not supposed to play like that but as long it is possible I think it is a loophole, that I think, now I have closed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon M
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dekraa wrote:
It's a loophole if you use it as one. Because you can abort in scene 1 and get one point, if you want to. Obviously you are not supposed to play like that but as long it is possible I think it is a loophole, that I think, now I have closed.


Gaming the game to grab that one karma isn't my idea of fun. If anyone is actually playing that way, they should just start their game with 10 or 20 Karma and just get into the rewards.

I don't view the game as "Karma / No Karma". To me the game is "win / loss with a consolation prize / full blown loss", and with how difficult some of those games can be, I am fine with getting that 1 Karma.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dekraa wrote:
It's a loophole if you use it as one. Because you can abort in scene 1 and get one point, if you want to. Obviously you are not supposed to play like that but as long it is possible I think it is a loophole, that I think, now I have closed.


How exactly does this work?

Remember: You cannot abort unless one of the the characters goes Critical.
There is no 'voluntary abort'.

With that in mind:

The fastest way for a character to Critical out during Scene 1 is an Elf against a Damage 2 obstacle, which is 4 turns (4-2-staggered-critical). All other races are going to take 5+ turns to critical out. Yes, some Crossfire events may change this but it's good enough as a base for discussion.

During that time what exactly is the rest of the team doing?
Admiring the artwork on their basic cards?
Not drawing their cards because they already have 3+ cards in hand?
Window shopping in the Black Market because they're not getting any Nuyen?
Oh... Wait... I know... They're *taking damage* from their own obstacles that they aren't attempting to defeat.

So when your chosen sacrificial dandelion eater finally goes down after four rounds of crossfire cards, everyone else is down 4 hits *and* is going to have to deal with the critical character's obstacle in addition to their own. That's at least 3 points of incoming damage. At four hits down, our Humans and Dwarves have only one HP left until they are Staggered. Our Orcs have two HP left.

If you're spending the time to orchestrate all of that and play 4 full rounds around the table, why not instead attempt to beat the game honestly and earn your Karma?

= = = =

Writing an arbitrary amount of Karma on your character card is a much faster way to achieve the goal of leveling up a given character while simultaneously not learning how to actually play the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jimmy Bjorck
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
I agree, it's stupid to play like that. And I think you always should aim to win. Im not one of those who complain about the difficulty, I think it's brilliant and one of the most addicting card games I've played. And I have yet, after 30 plays, failed only once before scene3, so no big dramatic change in karma.

For me; I feel a bit of tension every time, because I can lose one karma if Im not up for grabs, and I like that. But I understand why many dont share that same feeling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pauli Vinni
Finland
Espoo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quite easy to game this system. Take one elf and let him die. Have three trolls, so they can easily manage the retreat procedure. Easy one karma every time!
And so boring.... Yep, don't do it!
Of course the other players kill every other obstacles before the elf goes critical. So there is one obstacle during the retreat round... easy as taking lollipop...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lonnie H
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hannibal_pjv wrote:
Quite easy to game this system. Take one elf and let him die. Have three trolls, so they can easily manage the retreat procedure. Easy one karma every time!
And so boring.... Yep, don't do it!
Of course the other players kill every other obstacles before the elf goes critical. So there is one obstacle during the retreat round... easy as taking lollipop...


But as many have said, why waste the time to simulate "earning" Karma? If you are going to "game" the game, then save some of your real life and just give yourself 5-20 karma?

This is coming from a father of two young kids (pre-gaming ages) where gaming time is a rare commodity. I just can't see wasting gaming time so I could say I "earned" all my karma.

Have fun with your gaming time.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Olsen
Denmark
Ringsted
Danmark
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Thanks! This sounds very good, and I will try it.

One thing though, I do not understand what you mean here:

Dekraa wrote:
Karma scaling
Aborts:
as long win(points) > abort(points) = 1p

Win(point) <(or same) abort(point) = 0p

Does this make sense ? :D



Thanks again
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Pleasant Hill
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
Hannibal_pjv wrote:
Quite easy to game this system. Take one elf and let him die. Have three trolls, so they can easily manage the retreat procedure. Easy one karma every time!
And so boring.... Yep, don't do it!
Of course the other players kill every other obstacles before the elf goes critical. So there is one obstacle during the retreat round... easy as taking lollipop...


But as many have said, why waste the time to simulate "earning" Karma? If you are going to "game" the game, then save some of your real life and just give yourself 5-20 karma?

This is coming from a father of two young kids (pre-gaming ages) where gaming time is a rare commodity. I just can't see wasting gaming time so I could say I "earned" all my karma.

Have fun with your gaming time.

I'm in the same boat in real life. I'd rather play to win but basically if you make it to scene 3, it is a very good run and every time I have made it there, I failed to abort and waste all that time.

If instead I would have just not attacked anything in scene 2 with 1 obstacle left, I could have easily gotten 1 Karma. As it was, 100% of the time if I move to scene 3 I get nothing.

So the way I am going to play the game now is to forget Karma. I am going to allow my characters to get whatever 4 skills they want on their cards and play. The fun will come in changing around the skills and duo of races to produce the best win percentages as possible.

To me that beats the heck out of the system Catalyst designed. Other than that I love the game though. It's a great take on the deck building system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.