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Subject: Is Apocalypse a big baby or is he the real deal? rss

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kalvin connor
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I wanted to find out for myself. Usually on Wednesdays, I go to my FLGS to play games. However, today it just didn't work out so I stayed home on my day off. I always hear about people playing solo, so I figured I would just give it a go. Except I had a change in mind.

I read the golden solo rule and I decided that it would just not work out for me. Instead, I would set up the game as 2 players and play both decks. It still is not as easy as you would think, even with the ultimate collusion going on.

P.S. I also cherry pick everything, because I can. And also, I know there is no losing condition if the villain deck runs out, only if the hero deck runs out its a draw.

Without further ado, here is my set up:

Solo 2 player
MM - Apocalypse
Scheme - The one with the Skrulls (this was actually random)
Villain Groups - Skrulls and Four Horsemen
Henchmen- MODOK (I keep picking them for some reason, I gotta stop that)
8 plot twists
5 MS
12 random heros from the hero deck, adding in an extra hero group

Heros-
Black Panther
Cable
Collosus
Daredevil
Iceman
Magik

Play with:
Wounds
All Bystanders
Binding
Madame Hydra
Shield Officers
Sidekicks
New Recruits


Now sadly, I am waiting for more sleeves to show up. I have all of my heros sleeved but not the villain deck, so I knew when a skrull hero was coming up, sadly. However, since they were random, I do not believe it mattered.

So, I began to play and I decided player 1, the one I wanted to win, would buy all the icemen that came up. Player 2 would go with magik, and hopefully Collosus. However, that ended up not working out as planned and player 1 ended up with most of the collosus cards.

Early game was extremely rough. I believe within the first 10 villain cards, there was 5 hero skrulls. This made me nervous as if 8 escaped, it was game over. It was also game over should each of the 4 horsemen escape. Luckily, I was able to kill 2 of those HS (hero Skrulls) with player 1. I also got cheap Magik cards with player 2 allowing player 2 to get tons of sidekicks.

As the game progressed, there was a time when all 5 spots on the villian side were all horsemen. Thankfully, Iceman came to the rescue on player 1's turn to save the day. With me in dismay, the darn 7 horseman escaped. Knowing now that I can keep letting that one escape and be fine since he already escaped. I also knew if I killed the 4 horseman (technically 6, I was playing correctly), I would be able not worry about any more of them escaping, obviously trying to kill them if possible still.

The game continued. 4 HS escaped causeing me to get nervous as the city fills back up with 5 more HS. If 4 of them escaped, I was doomed. I doefully looked at the board, thinking all hope was lost. But then, I had a great hand with player 1 after player 2 let another escape. I had tons of ranged cards in my hand, and the first one I could lead off with was perfect. It didnt have any " x: do this" terminology on it to make it a wasteful card. I think it was cables +2 vs the mastermind. Then I played the iceman to let me draw a card. than another of the same copy. Then I played the magik that allowed me to get 1 +2 attack. The same one again. Then I played the iceman to allow me to draw cards for all the ranged I have played. Then the same one one more time. Then I had 2 copies of the +1 attack for all other ranged played this turn. Oh, it was n ebullient turn defeating many HS, even at the +2 modifier.

However, the villain deck was becoming sparse. Knowing I have only defeated Apocalypse 1 time so far and that card made me shuffle it back in, I was wondering how much longer I could survive. Also, not many MS had came up yet, though his are not terrible, they make you lose a turn.

Well, time went on and player 1 defeated a villain to make only 4 in the city (it filled back up quickly). Then player 2 took his turn and BAM MS. Well, that turn is useless. Player 1's turn, another MS causing 3 bum turns in a row. 1 HS escapes and so does a horseman.

But things quickly turned for the better.

With all of the magiks in players 2 hand, they were getting TONS of sidekicks. And many high cost heros were in the HQ, so they were buying an additional 1 every turn. I obviously got that deck magiks ult card asap. However, it was too late even use it. It was in my last deck but I never got down to it as all of my sidekicks were at the bottom of that deck too. However, before that happened they generated an attack of 22 (at this point, I was getting high hands consistently as both decks were made to draw cards or combo with range). She KO'd Apocalypse getting 6 bystanders. Giving that player 9 recruit to work with and 2 more cards. It was insane.

As time went on, the villain deck got more desolate and I knew I had to start killing the MM at this point. I began my final assault on him. killing him 3 times within 6 turns. But, the third time had the card that made me reshuffle it back in. Hopelessly I regathered my card and kept playing. We were able to keep villains from escaping but not really deal with apocalypse as his MS keep pooping up on us. But then on Player 2's turn the final card from the villain deck was drawn. But he was able to muster up enough strength to kill... another Skrull.

Back to player 1, whom was able assemble his xm(a)n iceman for an attack of 22 and kill the final tactic. After facing him 6 times, I had defeated him. 1 last time.

Such a fun time playing 2 decks at the same time. I ended up using all 8 twists, 5 HS escaped and 2 horsemen escaped and that was all.

Player 1 had 48 VP and player 2 had 29 VP.

Such a great game. I had a blast playing 2 decks and betting apocalypse. I didnt think he was terrible to fight, but not exactly easy. Especially having to fight off the HS constantly + the additional 8 that get put into the sewers throughout the game.


If you get the chance, play the same setup and let me know how you did! I certainly hope you have a great time!
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Jacob Stick
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If you don't like Golden Solo, try regular Solo. It is in the Base Rule book with additional changes from the Dark City handout.
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kalvin connor
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MasterGM wrote:
If you don't like Golden Solo, try regular Solo. It is in the Base Rule book with additional changes from the Dark City handout.


Yeah, I read the rules for solo. I didnt care for that either. So, I just played solo the way I wanted to. Nothing against any of the other ones, I just think playing 2 hands is more fun. Its slower for sure, but you get more heros this way
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David A
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MasterGM wrote:
If you don't like Golden Solo, try regular Solo. It is in the Base Rule book with additional changes from the Dark City handout.

Better yet, Advanced Solo
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Thud105 wrote:
MasterGM wrote:
If you don't like Golden Solo, try regular Solo. It is in the Base Rule book with additional changes from the Dark City handout.

Better yet, Advanced Solo


Even better: Han Solo.

I'll get my coat.
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David M. Cabal Inés
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Usually for 2 players the game is so easy. That's why they change some things for solo.

I notice that it is better with 3-4 players, with 5 become more difficult because the villians do more things than the players...
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Josh Worley
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Also, in a two-player game you'd only have five Heroes in your party, not six. So that would make it a bit more difficult, also.

What Hero did you use in the Villain deck?
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swirlsaepi wrote:
Also, in a two-player game you'd only have five Heroes in your party, not six. So that would make it a bit more difficult, also.

What Hero did you use in the Villain deck?


Skrull Scheme calls for 6 Heroes and you shuffle random 12 hero cards from the total 84 cards into the Villain deck.

Apocalypse is the real deal, though you lucked out and got one of the easiest Schemes out there (also hand-picking the heroes, although seems like you didn't go all out of tilt the scales in your favor, then again, any game with Iceman and any Ranged heroes probably does that).
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Dam the Man wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
Also, in a two-player game you'd only have five Heroes in your party, not six. So that would make it a bit more difficult, also.

What Hero did you use in the Villain deck?


Skrull Scheme calls for 6 Heroes and you shuffle random 12 hero cards from the total 84 cards into the Villain deck.

Apocalypse is the real deal, though you lucked out and got one of the easiest Schemes out there (also hand-picking the heroes, although seems like you didn't go all out of tilt the scales in your favor, then again, any game with Iceman and any Ranged heroes probably does that).


Didn't or did? Are you saying that ranged are underpowered or overpowered? I am just curious, I haven't played enough to know what goes well together yet actually. Nor do I know which combos give the most damage. I am working on figuring that out. All I knew is that wanted to play with iceman.

I thought the scheme was actually a difficult one. That added more villains to have to deal with at damage or +2 the cost. So, it ranges from at least 5-10. Plus, any twist adds in the highest cost hero. So you end up with a total of 59* cards (or did you already add in the extra 8 from twists?) in the villain deck. Its crazy. And if 8 get out you lose.

Maybe I will try solo rules. Just maybe
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sircaradoc wrote:
Didn't or did? Are you saying that ranged are underpowered or overpowered?


Iceman by himself can turn into a right ol' monster with the crazy good synergy he has. But toss in more Ranged heroes and you're making thermite (from ice no less ).

Quote:
I thought the scheme was actually a difficult one. That added more villains to have to deal with at damage or +2 the cost. So, it ranges from at least 5-10. Plus, any twist adds in the highest cost hero. So you end up with a total of 59* cards (or did you already add in the extra 8 from twists?) in the villain deck. Its crazy. And if 8 get out you lose.


The loss condition is actually 6 Heroes escaping. I'm 12-0 against Skrull Invasion, it's one the Schemes I'd love to draw when going up against Apocalypse (along with Midtown Bank Robbery and Killbots), because he's just an annoying Mastermind, getting as easy a Scheme as possible helps things enormously. Big Villain deck actually helps, bigger the better, since Twists and Master Strikes come out less often (really nice vs Galactus too given his 5 Master Strikes = game over). Hell, defeating Skrull Heroes gets them into your deck, so you're getting heroes via Recruit and Attack.

I also play 2-handed solo when playing Legendary, that way I have to make zero adjustments to rules and setup anytime my friend and I play Legendary as normal 2-player. Plus, get to see more heroes and villains each game compared to solo-solo.
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Dam the Man wrote:
sircaradoc wrote:
Didn't or did? Are you saying that ranged are underpowered or overpowered?


Iceman by himself can turn into a right ol' monster with the crazy good synergy he has. But toss in more Ranged heroes and you're making thermite (from ice no less ).

Quote:
I thought the scheme was actually a difficult one. That added more villains to have to deal with at damage or +2 the cost. So, it ranges from at least 5-10. Plus, any twist adds in the highest cost hero. So you end up with a total of 59* cards (or did you already add in the extra 8 from twists?) in the villain deck. Its crazy. And if 8 get out you lose.


The loss condition is actually 6 Heroes escaping. I'm 12-0 against Skrull Invasion, it's one the Schemes I'd love to draw when going up against Apocalypse (along with Midtown Bank Robbery and Killbots), because he's just an annoying Mastermind, getting as easy a Scheme as possible helps things enormously. Big Villain deck actually helps, bigger the better, since Twists and Master Strikes come out less often (really nice vs Galactus too given his 5 Master Strikes = game over). Hell, defeating Skrull Heroes gets them into your deck, so you're getting heroes via Recruit and Attack.

I also play 2-handed solo when playing Legendary, that way I have to make zero adjustments to rules and setup anytime my friend and I play Legendary as normal 2-player. Plus, get to see more heroes and villains each game compared to solo-solo.


Its a little more shuffling than I care to shuffle. But, that's ok.

I see what you mean about the villain deck being larger helps. However, with the scheme (just as having streets of NY as the bad guys), you do not gain VP. So, if that is how you gauge how well you do, then it would be true that this does not give any advantages. But I do guess that it is an easier scheme than most.

Iceman is pretty good just by himself. As you can see by my microbadges, I really like ranged heros. I think they are the best.

I wanted to add that I think forge was the most useless character. So many of his cards are so conditional that it is only good if your deck is really small and you have a high probability of drawing him every time. Just as icemans ult
 
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sircaradoc wrote:
I wanted to add that I think forge was the most useless character.


Forge is SO GOOD. Dirty Work is a little lackluster, but his other cards are all top notch. And his rare? Oh, how many Demon Goblins does Madelyne Pryor have? 30? That's cute. Headshot.
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sircaradoc wrote:
I see what you mean about the villain deck being larger helps. However, with the scheme (just as having streets of NY as the bad guys), you do not gain VP. So, if that is how you gauge how well you do, then it would be true that this does not give any advantages.


Win vs loss is how I gauge success, especially against the douchebag Apocalypse. For others, and particularly with one of the three Schemes mentioned (several others too that I haven't yet lost, just not as many plays using them), where victory is far more certain (can't say given at the start), VPs might be higher up on the priority scale, but without being the Mastermind, VPs are moot.

Quote:
I wanted to add that I think forge was the most useless character. So many of his cards are so conditional that it is only good if your deck is really small and you have a high probability of drawing him every time. Just as icemans ult


I don't think Forge is anywhere near the bottom (base Spider-Man will forever hold that spot for me). Or that he needs a small deck. Drop his Attack Common, then his Recruit Common, toss a SHIELD Starter to draw 2, rinse repeat until you run out of the Recruit Common. His Uncommon with Versatile 3 is one of the most contested cards pretty much regardless of what deck you're running, it's just so good. And his rare is fricking cool, all but guaranteed to hit Mastermind twice in a turn. Forge does solid even if he is the lone hero bringing a lot of Tech to the Hero deck; though less awesome than Iceman being the only Ranged, but like Forge + one of Punisher/Mr. Fantastic/Iron Man = lookout! Plus, you draw Forge vs Doom and/or Legacy Virus and you can just laugh off all Master Strikes and Scheme Twists.
 
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er I done goofed. I meant Cable
 
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Okay, that makes a bit more sense, though I don't hate Cable or mind seeing him in a setup. His Ranged Common is a bit of an oddball, being only 2 Attack, but 4 vs Mastermind, though if you can get two of him early, you might be hitting the MM far sooner than you imagined. Uncommon's Teleport really helps muster all the points you can, with his other Common having some potential against certain MMs.
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
Also, in a two-player game you'd only have five Heroes in your party, not six. So that would make it a bit more difficult, also.

What Hero did you use in the Villain deck?


Skrull Scheme calls for 6 Heroes and you shuffle random 12 hero cards from the total 84 cards into the Villain deck.

Apocalypse is the real deal, though you lucked out and got one of the easiest Schemes out there (also hand-picking the heroes, although seems like you didn't go all out of tilt the scales in your favor, then again, any game with Iceman and any Ranged heroes probably does that).


Ah, thanks. It's been a while since I played the Skrull Invaders scheme, and I didn't remember it specified you add an additional Hero.
 
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sircaradoc wrote:
er I done goofed. I meant Cable


Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.
 
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runnestrand wrote:
sircaradoc wrote:
er I done goofed. I meant Cable


Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.


Yeah, but EVERY time the MS hit, I was without his tech common. Such a sad day :/

I also was really hoping colossus would be a lot more fun to play. But getting the wounds with his common when he is the only colossus did not work out very well. However, if you start getting more colossus, he works out just fine. It ended up being that I had a ton of cards to deal with MS and plots. But never got to use any of them. Just (bad) luck of the draw.

I really like the pvp element other heros add in. Such as Ghost Rider when he gets to steal some vp from you. Cool card and really punishes those who lack in low vp villains. I really wish more card were pvp. Some cards when I played with Ghost Rider and punisher were uber difficult to deal with (against).
 
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runnestrand wrote:
sircaradoc wrote:
er I done goofed. I meant Cable


Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.

Which is odd because Stryfe is his true arch-nemesis
 
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runnestrand wrote:
Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.


Tech Cable also works against those Masterminds that say "exactly 6 cards", since dumping Cable leaves you with 5 and thus immune.
 
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Thud105 wrote:
runnestrand wrote:
sircaradoc wrote:
er I done goofed. I meant Cable


Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.

Which is odd because Stryfe is his true arch-nemesis


That's how things shook out, but Cable was created to defeat Apocalypse.

http://x-men.wikia.com/wiki/Cable
 
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runnestrand wrote:
Thud105 wrote:
runnestrand wrote:
sircaradoc wrote:
er I done goofed. I meant Cable


Definitely worse than Forge, but still a decent character. His tech common is designed to defend against Apocalypse's Master Strike. And it does that very well.

Which is odd because Stryfe is his true arch-nemesis


That's how things shook out, but Cable was created to defeat Apocalypse.

http://x-men.wikia.com/wiki/Cable


Man, I wish I read comics more. That was an awesome story. I love reading about super hero's. Although, I wish I got the entire story, I won't complain at pieces of it. I don't really care for all the time traveling stuff though. Seems kinda silly. It makes every action inconsequential. Lame. But thanks for the interesting read
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Apocalypse is really nasty, but I've been pleased to see he now has competition for toughest boss around (I have worse luck against Zombie Goblin and Thanos).

Iceman is amazing in almost any case, but that's been well covered already. One other possibility comes to my mind that hasn't been discussed yet.

Two of your heroes are Sidekick-oriented heroes (yes, only Black Panther's rare makes use of them, but that's a strong rare). Sidekicks are massively powerful. Maybe they're not as potent as Artifacts (Star-Lord's Artifacts are gigantic), but they can do huge things. I wonder if so many of the new Masterminds are tough just to counteract the power of them.

 
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Tsallak wrote:
Sidekicks are massively powerful. Maybe they're not as potent as Artifacts (Star-Lord's Artifacts are gigantic), but they can do huge things. I wonder if so many of the new Masterminds are tough just to counteract the power of them.


Agree on Sidekicks. Not sure their impact has been brought up as much as they perhaps give the heroes a boost. Get a 5/3 opening split, get a 3-cost hero and no 2-cost available (hell, or Spider-Man available ), cha-ching, Sidekick, recruit not wasted. 6/2 opening was often dreaded prior to SW1. Buff draw effect heroes and speed up your deck-cycling without actually diluting your deck in the overall scheme of things (since they return to the SK stack).
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
Tsallak wrote:
Sidekicks are massively powerful. Maybe they're not as potent as Artifacts (Star-Lord's Artifacts are gigantic), but they can do huge things. I wonder if so many of the new Masterminds are tough just to counteract the power of them.


Agree on Sidekicks. Not sure their impact has been brought up as much as they perhaps give the heroes a boost. Get a 5/3 opening split, get a 3-cost hero and no 2-cost available (hell, or Spider-Man available ), cha-ching, Sidekick, recruit not wasted. 6/2 opening was often dreaded prior to SW1. Buff draw effect heroes and speed up your deck-cycling without actually diluting your deck in the overall scheme of things (since they return to the SK stack).


I have bad news for you. You're drawing too many cards. Legendary uses a 6 card hand. 4/2 is dreaded (and the most common). 6/2 would be quite welcome! Alas, you don't draw 8 cards, you draw 6. Have fun watching your games get much more challenging and balanced!
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