Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
73 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: [S] Asexuals - The need for a preference label rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This derives from more local weekly reading (a bit into backissues now), but it hits on something that's fascinated me back from when we were talking about trans a lot: The asexual movement.

(source):
http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/06/24/22437...

I'm really stuck on the most passive of ways you can be (lacking sexual attraction to people in general) and how it needs a tightly defined specific label as a 'preference' and be associated with the LGBT movement (which was really formed to deal with prejudice and violence, at least at first).

What drives people so hard to self-categorize extensively, and do folks feel it's a useful thing to do?

(I don't, I think it's actually pretty damn harmful and only occludes self-examination)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This one is a head-scratcher to me. I've met only a handful of people who identify as "asexual", and only one of those I actually believed (the others seems like they were gaming the term to try to make a specific person of their interest more comfortable around them. Like, 'no, I don't want to be with you just because of your body, I'm asexual'! Also: worrying how often this worked, and how often it made women partners of such people REMAIN more comfortable with them even AFTER having sex with them.)

And of the one person I met who I would believe it of, I would never choose the first world to describe them as 'asexual' so much as 'sociopath'. That they were not sexually attracted to either gender seemed completely in alignment with their general tolerance for humanity overall (IE., 0%). So I'm not sure I'd call this a preference that should be 'normalized', and naturally disagree with the article's comments that it doesn't stem from some trauma or otherwise bad experiences in life.

It rather strongly flies in the face of how our biology functions, after all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
We used to have an asexual in this forum.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
she2 wrote:
We used to have an asexual in this forum.


I'd be interesting but tricky to actually talk to someone who's part of the movement - would be difficult not to seem negative.

The subject is interseting to me, because I could see myself being included in their category by their criteria, although it may not be as extreme.

Seeing how people react to (what is likely to me) a similar mental state that you can somewhat empathize with, but much differently is always interesting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
Avatar
mbmbmb
A friend of mine in College I swear was an asexual, and he was dating someone, and she was just the same. They both said they never had sex and never had any desire to do so. I guess they were perfect for each other. The weird thing was they were both really hot people.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: [S] Asexuals - The need for a preference clothing label
she2 wrote:
We used to have an asexual in this forum.
Was it Chris? oh, it's Pat! a 'couple' even then! surprise
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Myers
United States
Redmond
WA
flag msg tools
Mandelbrot/Simurgh hybrid etc etc
badge
I made both of these fractals, hurray!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've met an asexual person. They were pretty cool. For their experience, they said they had sex one time and liked it, but that was it, and it was the only time they had wanted to.

I think there is a movement to say that all abnormal sexuality isn't maladaptive or formed from trauma, and I think it's a lot more honest to say that (most) abnormal sexuality is possibly has a benign etiology -- so it can form ex nihilo, or it can be the result of something awful too.

I have no idea if my acquaintance had gone through trauma or not.

There's also stuff like asexual aromantic and asexual romantic, but, eh.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Terwox wrote:
I've met an asexual person. They were pretty cool. For their experience, they said they had sex one time and liked it, but that was it, and it was the only time they had wanted to.


I can see it easily enough arising as a result of biological condition, too, of course.

But for those with normal hormone levels, lacking any traumatic experience, and actually having positive history with sex (IE., 'had it once and liked it')...I just don't understand how that can work. The biological drive to sex is pretty strong in adults, presuming healthy hormone/chemical levels and mental balance.

(And I guess I could add one more asexual to the list I knew, who had not come to mind earlier, as he had killed himself a number of years back. Asexual, maybe, but also extremely depressed at the same time - very much someone who could never find any joy doing anything in life. But I wouldn't - obviously, as he committed suicide - consider this something like a normal/healthy state.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damian
United States
Enfield
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damiangerous wrote:
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.


See I just don't get that.

Maybe it's a thing with being outwardly oriented - you feel very strongly societies expectations and need a support group and an excuse to defy them, or at least to explain why you don't conform to them.

I just end up feeling, 'Why do I have to explain my sex drive (or lack of it) to others?' When it's an active thing, that's one thing - You can get beaten or killed for being gay or trans - but in general, the only people who know your level of sexual drive are you and whomever you tell.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Myers
United States
Redmond
WA
flag msg tools
Mandelbrot/Simurgh hybrid etc etc
badge
I made both of these fractals, hurray!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damiangerous wrote:
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.


You obviously don't have to answer this, but do you have any comorbid trauma or diagnoses? And when you say "close to," do you mean you just have a very low libido (e.g., you would choose to have sex less than once a month,) or something else?

Please extrapolate if you're willing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
windsagio wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.


See I just don't get that.

Maybe it's a thing with being outwardly oriented - you feel very strongly societies expectations and need a support group and an excuse to defy them, or at least to explain why you don't conform to them.

I just end up feeling, 'Why do I have to explain my sex drive (or lack of it) to others?' When it's an active thing, that's one thing - You can get beaten or killed for being gay or trans - but in general, the only people who know your level of sexual drive are you and whomever you tell.



The topic of sex can come up in lots of odd situations, which is why someone might want to disclose. Maybe a friend or co-worker wants to set them up with someone, maybe someone is attracted to them and tries to make a move, maybe they are asked questions about their past partners and just want to clarify their position. I think it's totally normal to disclose.

My mom dated a man for three years who never even kissed her, and after a long period of frustration she called it off. I imagine he was asexual (if not impotent), but it would have made her life a hell of a lot easier if he had told her so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damian
United States
Enfield
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Terwox wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.


You obviously don't have to answer this, but do you have any comorbid trauma or diagnoses? And when you say "close to," do you mean you just have a very low libido (e.g., you would choose to have sex less than once a month,) or something else?

Please extrapolate if you're willing!

You misunderstood (or I phrased ambiguously). I meant that I am close to a person who identifies as asexual, not that I am a person who is close to identifying as asexual. Might have been phrased awkwardly because I was trying to be as vague as possible.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
windsagio wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
I am close to a person who defines themselves as asexual. People need to "label" themselves whenever they are out of what is considered normal. It helps them to connect with others that feel the same way. I don't see anything wrong with it when it's used to seek inclusion and not exclusion.


See I just don't get that.

Maybe it's a thing with being outwardly oriented - you feel very strongly societies expectations and need a support group and an excuse to defy them, or at least to explain why you don't conform to them.

I just end up feeling, 'Why do I have to explain my sex drive (or lack of it) to others?' When it's an active thing, that's one thing - You can get beaten or killed for being gay or trans - but in general, the only people who know your level of sexual drive are you and whomever you tell.



The topic of sex can come up in lots of odd situations, which is why someone might want to disclose. Maybe a friend or co-worker wants to set them up with someone, maybe someone is attracted to them and tries to make a move, maybe they are asked questions about their past partners and just want to clarify their position. I think it's totally normal to disclose.

My mom dated a man for three years who never even kissed her, and after a long period of frustration she called it off. I imagine he was asexual (if not impotent), but it would have made her life a hell of a lot easier if he had told her so.


But this is a case where the category adds nothing but confusion.

If a memver of a couple is not interested sexually in someone their partner and this causes conflict it's on both partners to resolve this.

"I'm asexual" might be a softer blow than "I'm just not into you", but "I'm just not really into sex" works just as well without needing to talk about being an additional letter in the LBGTabet.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
she2 wrote:
We used to have an asexual in this forum.


Didn't nuke his account, but he hasn't logged in since May last year.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
JasonJ0 wrote:
she2 wrote:
We used to have an asexual in this forum.


Didn't nuke his account, but he hasn't logged in since May last year.


I miss his posts. He was a nice guy and smart.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mutton Chops
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samy
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Chaaaarge!!
badge
First Image Ever of a Hydrogen Atom's Electron Cloud
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mutton_chops wrote:
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).

I'm guessing that, just like any other group with a non-dominant characteristic, they can feel like they have to hide that aspect of themselves, and instead wish people just understood (rather than being incredulous, or skeptical, or judgmental, or whatever). That, and just generally wanting to be accepted for who they are, which is a common sentiment.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mutton Chops
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zurn wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).

I'm guessing that, just like any other group with a non-dominant characteristic, they can feel like they have to hide that aspect of themselves, and instead wish people just understood (rather than being incredulous, or skeptical, or judgmental, or whatever). That, and just generally wanting to be accepted for who they are, which is a common sentiment.


I don't understand how this is a characteristic that would necessitate being "hidden". How are people to know that one is asexual, unless one tells them? It's not the same as, say, booking into a hotel as a man, and asking for a double bed for oneself and one's husband; or holding hands with one's same-sex partner on the bus; or wearing clothes associated with the other gender whilst in the process of transitioning; &c. I can understand that people might be troubled by the misunderstandings around asexuality, but I have difficulty believing that many people's lives are significantly affected in a negative and practical way by such misunderstandings. Perhaps someone can give me some examples...?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mutton_chops wrote:
zurn wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).

I'm guessing that, just like any other group with a non-dominant characteristic, they can feel like they have to hide that aspect of themselves, and instead wish people just understood (rather than being incredulous, or skeptical, or judgmental, or whatever). That, and just generally wanting to be accepted for who they are, which is a common sentiment.


I don't understand how this is a characteristic that would necessitate being "hidden". How are people to know that one is asexual, unless one tells them? It's not the same as, say, booking into a hotel as a man, and asking for a double bed for oneself and one's husband; or holding hands with one's same-sex partner on the bus; or wearing clothes associated with the other gender whilst in the process of transitioning; &c. I can understand that people might be troubled by the misunderstandings around asexuality, but I have difficulty believing that many people's lives are significantly affected in a negative and practical way by such misunderstandings. Perhaps someone can give me some examples...?
Well I do not know about you, but I can remember how people react to virgins at school or saying you do not find the current "phooorrrr!" sexy.

Yes there are social situations where not being sexual can cause social embarrassment (and that is when it is not out of choice). It is not about significant negative consequences, it is about social acceptance. It is about not having to feel the but of the joke because you are a 40 year old virgin.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Binkowski
United States
Rochester
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
zurn wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).

I'm guessing that, just like any other group with a non-dominant characteristic, they can feel like they have to hide that aspect of themselves, and instead wish people just understood (rather than being incredulous, or skeptical, or judgmental, or whatever). That, and just generally wanting to be accepted for who they are, which is a common sentiment.


I don't understand how this is a characteristic that would necessitate being "hidden". How are people to know that one is asexual, unless one tells them? It's not the same as, say, booking into a hotel as a man, and asking for a double bed for oneself and one's husband; or holding hands with one's same-sex partner on the bus; or wearing clothes associated with the other gender whilst in the process of transitioning; &c. I can understand that people might be troubled by the misunderstandings around asexuality, but I have difficulty believing that many people's lives are significantly affected in a negative and practical way by such misunderstandings. Perhaps someone can give me some examples...?
Well I do not know about you, but I can remember how people react to virgins at school or saying you do not find the current "phooorrrr!" sexy.

Yes there are social situations where not being sexual can cause social embarrassment (and that is when it is not out of choice). It is not about significant negative consequences, it is about social acceptance. It is about not having to feel the but of the joke because you are a 40 year old virgin.


Wanting to be accepted by people who would ostracize you because of being a virgin or for not adhering to their mores is probably not in the person's best interest anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Frazier
United States
West Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
A man learns little by little in battle. Take this battle experience and become a man who can’t be beaten
badge
This flag says we will fight until only our bones are left.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think we don't tend to have frank conversations about sex in our "mainstream" society, so if your views on sex don't meet what you see on TV or in the media, it makes sense that you'd seek out people who do on the internet, and it also makes sense that once you find them, you and your group would come up with all kinds of terminology for how you feel and the way that differs from how others feel.

I don't really have a problem with it. I find talking to people who use a lot of their own "insider terminology" to be kind of boring and annoying, like "oh I'm not asexual, I'm gray-a" and stare at you like you should know what that means.

I also don't really like it when people act like it's mean or harmful to them if their specific tiny pie slice of behavior isn't given as much attention as pie slices of behavior that contain much larger sections of humanity.

Overall I'm fine with people being who they want to be and using the terms they want to use as long as they're realistic about their expectations regarding other people using those terms and being familiar with their specific preferences and in-group terminology.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sarxis wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
zurn wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
windsagio wrote:
And no mistake - in the article that's what the movement wants. They want 'asexual' to be treated as a preference group like being gay.


To what end? As far as I'm aware, there's no strong societal prejudices against asexuality. I've hear complaints from asexuals that society is too "sexualised", by which I think they mean that they somehow feel pressure to want sex, but since the vast majority of people do want sex, I don't see that situation changing (indeed, I don't see how it could change).

I'm guessing that, just like any other group with a non-dominant characteristic, they can feel like they have to hide that aspect of themselves, and instead wish people just understood (rather than being incredulous, or skeptical, or judgmental, or whatever). That, and just generally wanting to be accepted for who they are, which is a common sentiment.


I don't understand how this is a characteristic that would necessitate being "hidden". How are people to know that one is asexual, unless one tells them? It's not the same as, say, booking into a hotel as a man, and asking for a double bed for oneself and one's husband; or holding hands with one's same-sex partner on the bus; or wearing clothes associated with the other gender whilst in the process of transitioning; &c. I can understand that people might be troubled by the misunderstandings around asexuality, but I have difficulty believing that many people's lives are significantly affected in a negative and practical way by such misunderstandings. Perhaps someone can give me some examples...?
Well I do not know about you, but I can remember how people react to virgins at school or saying you do not find the current "phooorrrr!" sexy.

Yes there are social situations where not being sexual can cause social embarrassment (and that is when it is not out of choice). It is not about significant negative consequences, it is about social acceptance. It is about not having to feel the but of the joke because you are a 40 year old virgin.


Wanting to be accepted by people who would ostracize you because of being a virgin or for not adhering to their mores is probably not in the person's best interest anyway.
Work?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bimmy Jim
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wonder how many people claim they're "asexual" when they're actually attracted to dogs, bodies, children, grandmothers, or midgets.

Seems like being a self-proclaimed "asexual" doesn't carry the same stigma as being a pedo/necro/etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.