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B-Sieged: Sons of the Abyss» Forums » General

Subject: Dice Tower Review rss

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Eduardo Caldera
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A lot of folks are feeling uneasy after the Dice Tower mixed review. I wouldn't worry about that. Remember - it is only their opinion. My feeling is they were too hard on the game and somewhat inconsistent with their reviews of previous games that utilize similar mechanics. Honestly I think they were tired and not in the mood for this game - if you notice, they are wearing the same shirts they wore when they did the Star Wars Rebellion review. If they played both these games the same day, I can see them short-changing this one because of their gushing over Rebellion. Particularly when Rebellion takes 3-4 HOURS to play. Rebellion has no appeal to me (my opinion), too big, too fiddly, way too long, basically too much standard FFG.

I didn't back B-Sieged and regret not doing so. For me it looks fun, simple, challenging, and amazing components (which I paint). I will be picking up someones KS pledge after market, no doubt.
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L VonMeister
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Take a deep breath everyone - it's just one review.
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Anders Pedersen
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Well, if it is true all actions rely on dice being rolled and there is no way to mitigate luck, it doesn't sound promising.
But seeing how they sometimes miss crucial rules, I'll wait for other people to receive the game before drawing any conclusions.

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Joe Crane
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Tom loves ghost stories, and doesn't like this one. That was enough for me to discredit this review. All you do in ghost stories is roll dice and then lose but like the someone said, just one review and he has plenty of games he loves that I don't.
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Max Maloney
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Tom also appears to be pretty bad at coöp games. He has said he can't imagine playing Pandemic above normal difficulty and that he can hardly win Ghost Stories at all. So I don't necessarily find the difficulty worrying. But a game can be too random so that has the ring of a valid criticism.
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Mr Suitcase
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Keep in mind these guys have so many games to review, that they only get 1-3 plays each. With a tough coop, it can take awhile to learn some optimization, so that speaks to difficulty. For randomization, pay attention to their comments. Sometimes you're in a mood for that level of random, sometimes you're not.

If you're concerned, wait for reviewers who have more time to spend with a game. See if they share the same opinions or if they differ.

If you Kickstarted it, wait for it to arrive and play it with a clear and open mind. Then give us your own take on it by posting a review!
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Dustin Schwartz
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
Tom loves ghost stories, and doesn't like this one. That was enough for me to discredit this review. All you do in ghost stories is roll dice and then lose but like the someone said, just one review and he has plenty of games he loves that I don't.


The key in Ghost Stories is backing up your dice rolls with extra tao tokens, just in case. Sounds like there's not an analogous mechanism here.
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Eduardo Caldera
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Actually there is - the Divine Grace token allows you to modify rolls. You can have up to three at once and use as many as you like, after your roll. There is a number of ways to replenish your Divine Grace tokens.
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A Tang

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edjcaldera wrote:
Actually there is - the Divine Grace token allows you to modify rolls. You can have up to three at once and use as many as you like, after your roll. There is a number of ways to replenish your Divine Grace tokens.


It appears though that there's only one zone that lets you grab one guaranteed Divine Grace token. There's also a Blessed special ability that lets you grab one per turn. Other than that, there's not really any significant method to get them?

In Ghost stories, when you kill certain ghosts they can grant you Tao tokens. There is also a tile that lets you grab two Tao tokens of your choice. There seems to be way more luck mitigation available in Ghost stories that is not present here.

Perhaps this luck mitigation can be fixed by having every character have the Blessed ability as an innate feature? And the Blessed special ability is compounded to the innate ability? Or having the zone grant more than one Divine Grace token? We shall see.
 
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Santiago S
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Here is another review form one player that played it on GenCon, you can see it under game rating section...

Quote:
"6.5" Played the demo at Gen Con. Basically, an epic version of Castle Panic. Great miniatures, love that it can play 6 players, and like that the difficulty makes it feel like an epic game. However, I found the dice mechanics decided the game a lot more than the strategy seemed to, and a few mechanics led to high irritation factor. I was playing a character whose special ability was to get a weapon for free each round. However, there were only four weapons I was able to draw from the deck, and the three that I pulled were all one time use siege weapons that I did not have the resources to use. I felt like I wasted lots of actions and time. I can also see the mechanic of certain "rooms" in the building getting broken over and over because a certain enemy was throwing rocks from the first row being an irritation as well. I felt like it was a game that is only beatable when all of the cards and the dice fall just right, literally.




So this goes with the same that dice tower, if you got the dice results and cards you need, you win.

Lets wait for our copy and see how it goes.
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geosan wrote:
Here is another review form one player that played it on GenCon, you can see it under game rating section...

Quote:
"6.5" Played the demo at Gen Con. Basically, an epic version of Castle Panic. Great miniatures, love that it can play 6 players, and like that the difficulty makes it feel like an epic game. However, I found the dice mechanics decided the game a lot more than the strategy seemed to, and a few mechanics led to high irritation factor. I was playing a character whose special ability was to get a weapon for free each round. However, there were only four weapons I was able to draw from the deck, and the three that I pulled were all one time use siege weapons that I did not have the resources to use. I felt like I wasted lots of actions and time. I can also see the mechanic of certain "rooms" in the building getting broken over and over because a certain enemy was throwing rocks from the first row being an irritation as well. I felt like it was a game that is only beatable when all of the cards and the dice fall just right, literally.




So this goes with the same that dice tower, if you got the dice results and cards you need, you win.

Lets wait for our copy and see how it goes.



Yup. I think there criticism is valid. This is a game of probabilities. You'll have ways to mitigate them (equipment, the aforementioned tokens), but if the dice are against you, nothing you can do. That said, most dice chuckers suffer from this.

I knew that going in, so I'm fine.

I do remember it being brought up that when the scout (or whatever he's called), is on his way back, it's an easier win if he ends up returning on the same tile he left (because you've been keeping it clear). If he doesn't, it's a tough win to clear that second tile.

But these are all things I knew about, so I'm cool with it. Tom even said he would be cool with it IF the game were only a half hour long, it's the 1.5 hour playing time that relies on random/probability die rolls that made it unfun for them.

I'm sure there will be plenty of backers unsatisfied with the gameplay.

I'm sure there will be plenty of backers satisfied with the gameplay.

Jorune
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trevor

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Where is the review?
 
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I found the review on Youtube.

I glanced at the review at the end. Tom thought there was too much luck for the length of the game, and that the game had a sweet spot of 4 players, with more or fewer (since playing 2 players in this case) would result in multiple spawn points in some zones. They also commented on the more players, the more places blocked in the tower and the more downtime as well.

Both were favorably impressed by the components and stated they really wanted to like the game, even if in the end they didn't. They also stated that they thought there was a really good game in the box wanting to come out, and speculated that some gamers out there would probably come up with some house rules to bring this game out.

I think the same as Jorune, some will like this game and some won't. I also think that some that are disappointed in the game will step up to the plate and offer variants and houserules to improve the game for everyone. Heck, we do that for games we do think are pretty good as well.

Can't wait to receive this game and decide for myself.



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Emils E
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edjcaldera wrote:
Honestly I think they were tired and not in the mood for this game - if you notice, they are wearing the same shirts they wore when they did the Star Wars Rebellion review. If they played both these games the same day, I can see them short-changing this one because of their gushing over Rebellion. Particularly when Rebellion takes 3-4 HOURS to play. Rebellion has no appeal to me (my opinion), too big, too fiddly, way too long, basically too much standard FFG.


I think you are grasping for straws here.
They do not play a game and record the review right after that. They make a day out of it. If you look at Tom's review that come out in a same week he is dressed the same in many of them, because they are recorded back to back, then edited and posted once done.
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Tom Vasel
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We played B-Sieged WELL a week before we recorded it. We rarely play and review a game the same day. Also, this game and Rebellion have pretty much NOTHING in common, why would we compare them at all. And we played B-Sieged over multiple days, and we WANTED to like it.

I fully expect that folks will disagree with our review, of course! But there's nothing nefarious behind our review.

And thanks to the poster who mentions how much I suck at cooperative games.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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To me, the CMON games that are not designed by Eric Lang are not very well tested.

Sometimes the amount of plastic and dumb fun is enough to look past some game deficiencies and some systems (like Zombicide with Black Plague) evolved enough that I actually like them.

B-sieged seems long, simplistic and too luck dependent.

Ghost Stories, in comparison is way shorter, allows for clever planning and, yes, has some luck into it, but you can almost always get to the final stretch of the game with some hope of winning - the limited resources and movement (plus the envoy mechanism) on this game seems to kill the game momentum way before its climax.

I actually think Rum and Bones is fun. It is unbalanced and a have a rich gets richer reward system to further that, but the minis, excessive powers and lunacy of it all upgrades the toy factor for me and I can have a blast with the game regardless.

A Coop game that loses steam due to its unbalanced systems is just terrible. But, since I haven't played it is just what it looks like to me - I might be totally off and I sure hope I am.
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Ryan Moss
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I watched the review's gameplay segment and kept thinking to myself how much I'd rather just play Castle Panic. I had decided before even getting to the closing thoughts section that I was probably going to remove this game from my Wishlist. And after listening to the ending I was even more thankful I hadn't backed the project. Came very close, really only deciding not to due to Orcs Must Die! The Board Game: Order Edition KickStarting at about the same time and me not sure which my family would prefer. Decided to just wait and see. Glad I did!

Now I'm off to go try and take down Castle Panic: The Dark Titan yet again. One day it will happen!
 
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Hild Thegreat
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As I already told it in another topic, I like sometimes games being luck dependant, because, when it comes to a coop game, you will never loose alone, so the condition of a good game board evening is less the victory /defeat, and more the developpment of the game, the ups and downs, the chitchat and so on. I never have expected of B-Sieged to be a game being the center of a game evening, but a Tools to give fun to people during the evening.
 
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Christian Letourneau
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Crap. I so wanted this game to be good and went all in! Oh well, can't win them all as they say. I guess I didn't research this well enough because I was surprised by the amount of die rolls and luck for the game. Nothing I can't handle normally but I am afraid that my opinion will mirror Tom's and Sam's. The good thing is that my expectations are so low now that I might just like it in the end!
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Jason Peacock
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I backed it, just the basic with no add-ons. I contacted CMON and asked if I can now pick up all the extras. This review has got me to cancel my order for the extras. A game based on lucky dice roles alone is pretty much Candy Land.

Big giant Bummer.
 
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I don't get it. If I understand correctly you haven't played the game yet? And you still criticize the opinion of people who played it? That's seriously weird thing. I personally backed the game and hope that it's not as bad as they said but even if it is I will have a ton of minis to paint
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Didn't everyone get a chance to watch the gameplay videos that were shared during the KS? I blind backed an EB, and once I got a chance to watch gameplay footage, I dropped my pledge.
 
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Jon Darlington
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Doesn't matter to me. I backed the KS (but not the expansion) on a whim and this review gives me no regrets. I'm still looking forward to its arrival in a few weeks.

The components look great, and even if the review is correct there's still lots to work with here. Worst case, I've seen nothing a few tweaks and community ideas for house rules can't fix.

I'll make up my own mind once I get to play a few times.
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xBino wrote:
Didn't everyone get a chance to watch the gameplay videos that were shared during the KS? I blind backed an EB, and once I got a chance to watch gameplay footage, I dropped my pledge.


I did the opposite. I pledged for a $1 during the campaign. When I finally had time, I watched the gameplay video and read the rulebook (and expansion rulebook). Based on that, I went almost all in (no mufflins mini's).

This looks to be a great game for me solo and with the kids. I like the simplicity of the rules and that the luck of the dice mean less AP during play.

Jorune
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Brandon Palmer
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This really is very disappointing.

I plan on playing with my 8 year old but still I should not have to house rule a game like this. Spent around $200 and hopefully that is not a total waste.

 
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