Pierre Pinguet
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
Ah , one of my favorite subject, and one of my favorite ruthless conqueror

You can check http://www.samurai-archives.com/nobunaga.html for more info on Nobunaga,and the other 2 unifiers of Japan that finished the job for him (Hideyosi and Tokugawa).

The name of the "traitor" is Mitsuhide Akechi.
He was one of Nobunaga trusted lieutnant. As Nobunaga was at the Honnoji temple in Kyoto, he dispatched Mitsuhide and a large part of his army to help Hideyoshi in a protracted siege far away.
During the night, and for reasons not completly clear, Mitsuhide turned back, and surrounded Honnoji temple. Nobunaga was defenseless. The temple was burned to the ground.
Mitsuhide has little time to enjoy its victory, as hearing the news, Hideyoshi broke the siege of the castle he was attacking, and marched his army back to Kyoto. He caught up with Mitsuhide and crushed him at the Battle of Yamazaki.
Thus he was able to avenge his master, and brought the head of the traitor at the burial of Nobunaga...

Nobunaga first battle against the Imagawa (5000 vs 20000), is also very impressive, perhaps one of Japan first "Special ops". But probably difficult to game...
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Adam Starkweather
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
i just got 12 new books in on the subject...I will try and remember to go through them for you next week and give you a few recommendations...

Busy prepping for a con this week.

Movies? Ran and Kagamusha (two Kurosawa's to get you in the mood - not my fav Kurosawa but Dersu Uzala and Iruku aren't the right topic )...

Adam
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Colin Hunter
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
non of the kurasawa films really cover nobunaga. There are lots of good books, about him. If you want a kind of overview of events with not a lot of dept you could look at one of Stephen Turnbull books, just to give an overview (they have nice pictures too). If you want a semi fictional account that would cover the historical events you could look at Hideyoshi (I forget the author), it is a novel about Hideyoshi who was one of nobunaga's generals (and a peasant) and succeeded him. I only mention these as they are very accessable ways to get into the period.

There are lots of serious histories as well, I'll have to dig through my collection and have a look at what might be good (a lot of mine are academic and so deal with social history, so would be very dry). However there are plenty of good overviews.

Good Movies (not about Nobunaga)

Heaven and Earth (I think that is what it is called), not to be confused with the the hollywood film of the same name. It is about battles in the plains of Shinano between the Uesugi and Takeda clans. GOod film, lots of beautiful battle Scenes.

Kagemusha is a classic about the rise and fall of the Takeda clan through the eyes of Takeda Shingen's Double. Great film very beautiful, but inaccurate battle scene at the end of the movie (kind of like the battles in brave heart really).

Ran - really non historical, it is ok, but it is well received in the west because it is really king lear

That should get you started.
Goodluck
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Adam Starkweather
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
Ran is certainly Lear in drag - but a beautiful period piece and certainly has a rich pagentry to it.

Worth seeing - Kagemusha is better...

BTW, Takeda Shingen plays a pivital role in A Most Dangerous Time (and could be much bigger than historically if he doesn't die too soon like he really did)...and they others are all there too...Tokagawa, Araki (who can betray without warning - as many others can), Hideyoshi...and a cast of thousands (well, a few dozen more leaders really - but lots of little soldiers - and they have mothers too)...

Adam
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Colin Hunter
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
awesome this game is sounding better and better. Man I was really hoping I could just buy Samurai lords, I guess I should preorder this aswell. Takeda Shingen is an interesting conundrum actually. He was militarily very successful, but died and had an inept heir. When i was at high school I used to think that this pretty much summed up what happened, but as I began to understand history more deeply, I think it was much more complicated than this. I think it had to do more with how their military power was situated. Anyway certainly an interesting piece of history and I would certainly read up on the whole takeda saga as it is certainly interesting.
 
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Mike Hollihan
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
The movie Samurai Assassin isn't specifically about these events. But it's also about betrayal and conspiracy. Stars the immortal Toshiro Mifune. The climax of the movie is the final assault scene in a heavy snow storm. No sound but falling snow, the clang of metal and thunk of wood, and the grunts and screams of fighting men. Very recommended!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059673/
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Kevin Moody
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
Quote:
not my fav Kurosawa but Dersu Uzala and Iruku aren't the right topic
Unfortunately, the VHS of Dersu Uzala is a better print/capture than the DVD. Just FYI.
 
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Merv D
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
I agree with the Ran and Kagemusha recommendations. They'll give you that epic feel you're wanting.

Be sure to get the Criterion Collection version of Ran.



The other versions will make you commit seppuku.

The castle seige scene in Ran is fantastic. Historically acurate? Eh, probably not; however, it is cinematic genius. It's gory, awesome, sad, crazy, and enthralling. It puts the seige of minas tirith (return of the king) to shame.
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
Hmmm, try this link.
http://criterionco.com/asp/full_cover_display.asp?id=316

and this one for all the info.
http://criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=316

 
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Colin Hunter
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
found heaven and earth if your interested. I've only seen it once as a teenager, but I remember it being somewhat historical with amazing battle scene. Ran is a good film, I just think it is a bit overated compared to some of the Kurasawa films (especially Dersu Uzala which is my favourite).
Check out Heaven and Earth here
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099753/
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
Ran is a good film, I just think it is a bit overated compared to some of the Kurasawa films
Yeah, like Throne of Blood.
Personal favorite is Yojimbo.
 
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Colin Hunter
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
yep sums it up... I haven't had a look for some good books, but you might want to start by reading hideyoshi it is an enjoyable way to get immersed into the period and the story of Nobunaga. It is kind of long, about 1000 pages, but easy to read as it isn't very deep, just an enjoyable read.
 
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Mark Mokszycki
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
As an anime (Japanese animation) fan, I can tell you there are LOTS of anime series and/or OVAs involving Nobunaga. And by the way, it's spelled "Nobunaga." Otherwise the pronounciation would be very different (more like a caveman name).
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Pierre Pinguet
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
duckweed wrote:
As an anime (Japanese animation) fan, I can tell you there are LOTS of anime series and/or OVAs involving Nobunaga. And by the way, it's spelled "Nobunaga." Otherwise the pronounciation would be very different (more like a caveman name).
That's true, but Nobunaga is usually either a bloodthirsty demon lord or a pure young man who just wants to conquer all of Japan to put an end to war and suffering ( I love it when they justify going to war by "I just want to end all wars" )..
They're fun of course, but realism isn't always their forte .
 
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
There's a couple of useful books, but they are from the wargaming point of view.

Stephen Turnbull has written loads on this period. The Samurai: a military History (1977 & 1996) gives a good overview of the campaigns and on Oda's military carreer. I recommend it as an introduction to this period.

Samurai Warfare (1996) is an overview of warfare in the period, with more detail found in The samurai sourcebook. There are more recent publications which I haven't seen.

There's also a number of samurai period titles in the Osprey series.

If you are interested in more detail, I can give you more obscure publications. But I'll have to dig. I did a megagame on the 1582 campaign a couple of years ago (starting just after Akechi took his revenge on Oda) but was hard pressed to find english language sources. Luckily my university had an impressive Japanese department and library, but it was scraping bits & pieces.

 
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
Pippin123 wrote:
Ah , one of my favorite subject, and one of my favorite ruthless conqueror

The name of the "traitor" is Mitsuhide Akechi.
He was one of Nobunaga trusted lieutnant. As Nobunaga was at the Honnoji temple in Kyoto, he dispatched Mitsuhide and a large part of his army to help Hideyoshi in a protracted siege far away.
During the night, and for reasons not completly clear, Mitsuhide turned back, and surrounded Honnoji temple. Nobunaga was defenseless. The temple was burned to the ground.

snip
my emphasis

It has been alledged that Oda had Akechi's mother killed over some honour-issue or that he repeatedly insulted Akechi and that Akechi took revenge for that.
 
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
jurdj wrote:
Pippin123 wrote:
Ah , one of my favorite subject, and one of my favorite ruthless conqueror

The name of the "traitor" is Mitsuhide Akechi.
He was one of Nobunaga trusted lieutnant. As Nobunaga was at the Honnoji temple in Kyoto, he dispatched Mitsuhide and a large part of his army to help Hideyoshi in a protracted siege far away.
During the night, and for reasons not completly clear, Mitsuhide turned back, and surrounded Honnoji temple. Nobunaga was defenseless. The temple was burned to the ground.

snip
my emphasis

It has been alledged that Oda had Akechi's mother killed over some honour-issue or that he repeatedly insulted Akechi and that Akechi took revenge for that.

He's also known as "The Thirteen Day Shogun" because that's how long his shogunate lasted before Hideyoshi destroyed him.

Oda piled the rice.
Hideyoshi rolled the dough.
Tokugawa ate the cake.
 
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Re: Need help: good books or movies about Oda Nobunga?
jurdj wrote:
Pippin123 wrote:
Ah , one of my favorite subject, and one of my favorite ruthless conqueror

The name of the "traitor" is Mitsuhide Akechi.
He was one of Nobunaga trusted lieutnant. As Nobunaga was at the Honnoji temple in Kyoto, he dispatched Mitsuhide and a large part of his army to help Hideyoshi in a protracted siege far away.
During the night, and for reasons not completly clear, Mitsuhide turned back, and surrounded Honnoji temple. Nobunaga was defenseless. The temple was burned to the ground.

snip
my emphasis

It has been alledged that Oda had Akechi's mother killed over some honour-issue or that he repeatedly insulted Akechi and that Akechi took revenge for that.

If my memory is good, Mitsuhide promised mercy to some samurai if they surrendered, but Nobunaga had them executed anyway. The clan of the samurai had their revenge by killing Mitsuhide's mother...

But nobody can be sure, since he didn't live long enough to explain himself...
 
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ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
found heaven and earth if your interested. I've only seen it once as a teenager, but I remember it being somewhat historical with amazing battle scene. Ran is a good film, I just think it is a bit overated compared to some of the Kurasawa films (especially Dersu Uzala which is my favourite).
Check out Heaven and Earth here
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099753/

Yeah... that lost gem. I'd love to see a DVD release. Correct me if I am wrong. There is one battle scene in this film where they roll these eight foot tall flaming balls of oil-soaked hay soaked down a hill and charge behind them?

 
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This is a pretty good TV show about Nobunaga:

www.samuraimoviedvd.com/product_info.php?products_id=341&osC...

Kagemusha has a very good portrail of him, though it is not about Nobunaga.

This is an excellent TV show about Tokugawa Eyasu w/ an hour long battle sequence of Sekigahara (the largest Samurai battle ever fought up to that time):

www.samuraimoviedvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_i...

 
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Douglas S
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adamant wrote:

Kagemusha is better...


Adam


Kagemusha is a great film.
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Also,

Nobunaga's Ambition by Koei for the 8-bit Nintendo Entertainment System is an old classic.
 
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Awesome book: "Taiko", by Eiji Yoshikawa
 
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