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Terra Mystica» Forums » Variants

Subject: Idea for a new faction - Mutants rss

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Alban Thomas
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=== Mutants ===

Note : This faction is part of the Power is Coming Faction Set.

Character Description
Mutants suffer of an unstable metabolism that implies regular evolution of their adaptation faculties.



Faction Abilities
Like Shapeshifters, Mutants are a variable faction : when picking the Mutants, you must also immediately choose a Home terrain. You may not choose the Home or Starting terrain of another Faction already in play (including Ice Maidens and Yetis). Indicate your choice with the Shapeshifter ring. Place it over the chosen terrain type on your Transformation cycle. Use the appropriate playing pieces according to your chosen Home terrain. The following players may not choose a Faction with that type of Home terrain. During setup, place your two Dwellings on hexes according to the choosen Home terrain.

During each income phase (including round 1), move the Shapeshifter ring by one step in clockwise order.
If the next color is an opponent's Home terrain, move forward (skip all opponent's Home terrain)

Stronghold
Cost 3W 6C, and has an income of +2PW
Special Action : pay 3PW and immediately move the Shapeshifter ring by one step in clockwise or counter-clockwise order. Also skip all opponent's Home terrain in that process.

Other details
Ship and dig upgrade limited to level 1
Start with any 2 cult steps (to be chosen immediately when picking Mutants)
No base Worker income
No Worker income on 4th Dwelling
All the rest is standard, including starting power : 5/7/0

Expectations
This is based on an original idea by BGGTourist.
The aim is a faction with deep planning possibilities : you have to think about what your home terrain will be in the next rounds.
If it goes well, they should be able to expand with a very limited count of spades, possibly zero. This is supposed to be counter-balanced by the low worker income (no base worker and no worker on 4th Dwelling)

SH is supposed to offer a better control on the ring cycle, with the downside of a significative power cost.

____________________________________

Like always, all types of feedbacks are welcome.

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Jack Spirio
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really like that idea, no clue on balancing dough
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Eduardo Andrade
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I liked it too.
Maybe jump the others players home terrain would be better than the compensation.
It would allow ship upgrades without problems.
 
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Alban Thomas
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Skipping opponents color is an alternative indeed,
I playtested Mutants like that already. It turns out I felt like the cycle of "only" 4 colors (since you skip 3 in a 4 player game) was hard to manage.
But I dont close the door to re-introduce it some day if the current version obviously doesnt work. I'm just short on real playtests...
 
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Mark Kovacs
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+1 like!
For me, not skipping the opponent's home terrain (and pay the costs) seems better option rather than jump to a free terrain. But what about your test plays, quick expansion of Mutants is not OP?

Another question apart from this: I really like your faction ideas, do you have a collection of them, where i can find all of it? Or what about a little contest? I mean you can match two faction here on forum, and we will vote (quote the faction board picture or something like that, time could be a week). Victors will move forward to next round...till only one will be left, who win the contest. I think it would be fun!
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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I would consider them weak, especially against good opponents that will anticipate your deep planing. Deep planing on expansion might also not be managable with planing of scoring opportunities.
The low worker income will likely cripple them, only the sh ability is a positiv but it's costly. Being limited to shipping 1 is also quite bad while digging upgrade should not be a consideration for them.
 
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Alban Thomas
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Thanks for your input,

Marker23 wrote:
+1 like!
For me, not skipping the opponent's home terrain (and pay the costs) seems better option rather than jump to a free terrain. But what about your test plays, quick expansion of Mutants is not OP?
I cant be 100% positive on anything at this stage of tests, but the low worker income is hurting them badly. My hopes are, it is balanced by easier expansion without care of getting spades.

Marker23 wrote:
Another question apart from this: I really like your faction ideas, do you have a collection of them, where i can find all of it? Or what about a little contest? I mean you can match two faction here on forum, and we will vote (quote the faction board picture or something like that, time could be a week). Victors will move forward to next round...till only one will be left, who win the contest. I think it would be fun!
I'm thinking about a PDF file to "release" all of them (or at least a beta version), but it's kind of a big work...
Your idea of contest is seducing, but I'm not so sure it would gather enough feedbacks/votes to worth the pain. I mean, look how much replies those types of custom faction threads usually get (and most of the time from the same people).

1869 wrote:
I would consider them weak, especially against good opponents that will anticipate your deep planing. Deep planing on expansion might also not be managable with planing of scoring opportunities.
The low worker income will likely cripple them, only the sh ability is a positiv but it's costly. Being limited to shipping 1 is also quite bad while digging upgrade should not be a consideration for them.
I'm aware they lack on workers, and have somehow to rely on BON6 and/or worker cult bonus.
Giving them a ship Level up to 2 is certainly an option if they turn out to be weak.
 
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Eduardo Andrade
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Another idea: if you use the stronghold ability to move the ring counter-clockwise put a power token inside the ring. During the income the ring will move counter-clockwise if there is a power token in it. Use the SH ability to move the ring clockwise will remove the power token in it.
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Alban Thomas
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melendor wrote:
Another idea: if you use the stronghold ability to move the ring counter-clockwise put a power token inside the ring. During the income the ring will move counter-clockwise if there is a power token in it. Use the SH ability to move the ring clockwise will remove the power token in it.
My first feeling is that is could be a great suggestion. Note I used conditional since we are just theorizing. whistle
So far, all they could do is use the SH counter-clockwise once per round, and by doing this, limiting terrain changes between the two same terrain types. With your proposal, they might be able to control their terrains way better, depending on situations/needs.
Maybe we shall even allow them to choose the future rotation direction regardless of the direction they use the ability. For instance moving one step clockwise, but still putting a power token for future moves at income.

Matthias already pointed out that the 3PW cost is relatively high (and I could not agree more on this), so I dont think this kind of additionnal planning possibilities are too much for the SH ability.

Need more tests... ninja
 
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Robert
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1869 wrote:
I would consider them weak, especially against good opponents that will anticipate your deep planing. Deep planing on expansion might also not be managable with planing of scoring opportunities.
The low worker income will likely cripple them, only the sh ability is a positiv but it's costly. Being limited to shipping 1 is also quite bad while digging upgrade should not be a consideration for them.
Given that the Mutants can move the Ss ring using their SH ability, the deep planning isn't nearly as predictable as the opponents would hope. If the Mutants are on yellow and I'm Darklings, I have no guarantee that I still have one round before my home terrain is within the Mutant's one-spade reach resp. two rounds until they can build there for free. The SH ability adds enough chances for surprises.

Personally I find 3pw a bit cheap for this - even ACT5 which terraforms just one hex costs you 4pw, so 4pw could be more appropriate. Obviously this is all theoretical guessing.

I find the idea of giving resources to the affected players a nice touch. That could actually be a cool way to apply a further tiny nerf to the Riverwalkers_v5: if they unlock the home territory of another player, that player gets the 2c (but not the priest ).
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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3pw is huge, in most cases it will prevent additional power digging and with limited shipping there isn't that much they can reach.
There is some nice yellow - brown - black - blue in the north, but with shipping limited to 1 you will need to dig black when you are brown although you can get it for free next round or even get blocked before.
 
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Robert
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Oh, they have limited shipping. I didn't notice that. That's indeed a significant disadvantage.
 
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Alban Thomas
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Yes, I wanted them to be limited in reaching free hexes, but that may be a bad implementation. I still think normal shipping would be OP for them.

How about giving them 2 levels of shipping, but with increased cost (like 1P6C)? This would make TW7 better for them.
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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Why do you think they are OP?
And what does that have to do with shipping?
They should place 2 dwellings without digging first round to get a decent worker income. For that they shouldn't need shipping but an additional worker if they also want to build a temple.
Beginning round 2 it might get difficult without shipping. Opponents will have secured hexes that are now your new color and that will not get better the rest of the game.

 
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Alban Thomas
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They really have nice openings, in particular with gray/red hexes on the original map.

For instance, start green on F4/E9
Round 1 you get E7/F6 (and a temple with BON5 eventually)
Round 2 you have D4/D7/G2

They also can use shipping on round 1 with BON4 :
Start Grey on C5/G1
Round 1 you get access to E3/G2/I5/D6/D7/A12

I admit these are ideal situations that wont always happen since there will be opponents around, but in my vision, with just one level of shipping they already have a lot of interesting possibilities.
That beeing said, my supposition was : "it would get even bigger if I allow them to have ship lvl 2".
But I'm perfectly willing to be contradicted, your different opinion matters to me. Let's imagine we give them a normal shipping track. Would you consider them kinda balanced now ?
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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Grovast wrote:
They really have nice openings, in particular with gray/red hexes on the original map.

For instance, start green on F4/E9
Round 1 you get E7/F6 (and a temple with BON5 eventually)
Round 2 you have D4/D7/G2

With neither grey nor red in play that will work and is probably the best option they have. But with reduced shipping they have problems to get connected, that's why I wouldn't limit that.

Grovast wrote:


They also can use shipping on round 1 with BON4 :
Start Grey on C5/G1
Round 1 you get access to E3/G2/I5/D6/D7/A12

So they can do a dwelling start, but that's not OP.
Mermaids and green factions can also put 7-8 dwellings on the board first round and then get 8w income instead of just 6.
I think the reduced worker income is quite enough to prevent them getting OP.
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Grovast wrote:


During each income phase (including round 1), move the Shapeshifter ring by one step in clockwise order.
When building a Dwelling on a hex of an opponent's Home terrain, give the 1W2C to him instead of returning it to supply.
That sounds too much like a kingmaker ability. To me it would unbalance the game for your opponents.

I think it would be better to move the ring to the next non-home terrain on the wheel spade.
It would make them feel different every game and it wouldnt affect your opponents home terrains
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Jack Spirio
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Why is this kingmaking? You steal them spaces too
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Alban Thomas
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Well, I presume this all depends wether you really hurt by taking an hex they would have need, or if you expand at the other side of the map, where the opponent will never go.
In this second case, this is pure benefit for him.
 
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Jack Spirio
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But it's still not kingmaking as you help yourself more then him
 
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Alban Thomas
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'Kingmaking' might not be the best word, especially since not everyone has the same exact definition for it (see *here* for instance)

But I think I get Skyswooper's point. If I'm right, he just means in some cases, Mutants will be in a situation where they can choose which opponent they 'help' quite a bit.
IMHO there already are that kind of frequent decisions in Terra Mystica (who am I giving leech to ? etc.), but still, Mutants as written increase for sure the impact of your choices on opponents.

There is pros and cons for this version VS skipping opponent's home terrain. What the best design is, for now it's unclear to me.
 
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mario stoisser
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Hi Grovast, thanks for uploading.Great work.

Now my question:
Does the mutants SH special action now also skip the opponent`s colors or are you allowed to move on them?
 
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Alban Thomas
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lord amami wrote:
Hi Grovast, thanks for uploading.Great work.

Now my question:
Does the mutants SH special action now also skip the opponent`s colors or are you allowed to move on them?
Thanks. As designed in this version, you also skip opponents colors when using SH special action.
 
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mario stoisser
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Thanks for clarifying.
I was insecure because of the missing multiplayer symbol beside the special action on mutants characters map.
 
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Alban Thomas
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lord amami wrote:
Thanks for clarifying.
I was insecure because of the missing multiplayer symbol beside the special action on mutants characters map.
I will add it in the next version.
Thanks for pointing this.
 
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