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MERCS: Recon – Counter Threat» Forums » Rules

Subject: Stairs, Collateral, and B&C questions rss

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eric hess
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Had a GREAT time playing this after my disastrous first game after skimming the rules. A few things are still unclear for me, so lets see:

STAIRS - If collateral damage essentially blocks a staircase, will agents/OpFor still spawn there? Further, could that essentially kill a mission that was to 'sweep' all agents/OpFor from a building? We had this happen where we had no LOS to the stairs after the space in front was destroyed by collateral damage and didn't know what to do.

STAIRS - Given there is no capacity value on the stair tiles, should I assume nothing can enter the stairs? Or should I assume ANYTHING can enter the stairs? Also, there is no blood value, so should I assume the stairs are immune to damage?

B&C- Rooms with a capacity value of 2 (like the datacenter, iirc?), what happens after a successful B&C? Rather than 3 Mercs remaining and 2 spilling out to the outside tile, will the inverse occur (assuming 5 man B&C)?

CDD - what happens when a tile has a CDD placed that reduces the capacity to below the number of units/agents on the tile? I assume they scatter where possible to adjacent tiles, but what if you can't do that due to other capacity/CDD issues with other tiles?

CDD - What happens to agents/OpFor on tiles that are reduced to 0 capacity? Do they perish? 'Jump' to adjacent tiles as above?

I think the game is lots of fun and once these few little obscurities are made clear to me, I think it will get lots of table time.
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CK Lai
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The official and unofficial FAQs answer almost all of your questions
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Greg
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Stairs - I would still spawn them there. Happened in my game this morning, though it was a different mission and didn't matter for me. It was my fault though, as I had the Incinerator set that are on fire when it was level 2 CDD, after a while it destroyed the are and made a hole. SecFor in the staircase couldn't move into the hall. Players have to be careful when and where they attack with collateral damage attacks.

Stairs - I allow movement into stairs. There's no capacity and nothing saying otherwise. I agree that since there is no blood, you won't put CDDs there. But Cd8's will still apply against everyone in there, just like normal.

B&C - yeah, just like any other situation, such as when a smaller capacity CDD is placed. So they will spill over to other tiles.

CDD - spill over. You can choose where they should go, based on other area capacity and what thematically makes sense to you. If there is no place to go for one of the figures, I would eliminate the lowest SecFor first.

CDD - Just like when other CDD reduce capacity, move them to adjacent areas if possible.


 
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eric hess
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Thanks, Greg!

Given the possibility to lose missions by ill-planned CDDs blocking B&Cs, it makes sense the same or similar fate could befall a Mercs team who can't see or clear the stairs.

Also Greg, sorry, its an even year so the Kings are taking the cup. You can have it back next year
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Philip Milne
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Stairs - If the card placing them there refers to the distance from the MERCS (i.e. 'Stairs closest to/furthest from a MERC'), then you place them at the other stairs.

The rule book states under LOS "When determining distance between two areas, the players can only count areas that can be moved through, except when using the scanner to reveal a location."

If there is an impassable space - a space that cannot be moved through - directly in front of one set of stairs (I would assume whether it's due to full capacity or collateral damage), then the other set becomes both closest and furthest.

NB: For anyone noticing that I'm in the UK, no, at time of writing, I haven't received my copies yet - so don't panic about yours!
I'm reading from the PDF rules available on the McG website and have been playing the heck out of the print and play over the last week. I really want this game to arrive!
 
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Greg
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biggdork wrote:
Thanks, Greg!

Given the possibility to lose missions by ill-planned CDDs blocking B&Cs, it makes sense the same or similar fate could befall a Mercs team who can't see or clear the stairs.

Also Greg, sorry, its an even year so the Kings are taking the cup. You can have it back next year


Well Eric, the Hawks haven't won it two years in a row, so this looks like a good time to do that Either way, the Capitals are looking really strong this year in the east. They seem to have a more balanced team this year than usual. I should know, as my wife is a Caps/Stars fan and always watches them on our Center Ice package. Though, I get to watch the Hawks on the bigger TV in the finished basement.

Regarding CDD's, I think they are part of the bigger picture thinking in this game. You may want to attack with a certain weapon that can cause collateral damage, but how will that affect an area that you may want to or need to pass through later.

Also, the timing of what collateral damage attack can be important too. Since it only takes 1 CD8 burst to damage the area the first time, and excessive bursts don't matter, then it would be better to use the heavy hitter of CD8's the first time attacking that area, as it will only result in going to level 2 CDD, and have a better chance of taking out the SecFor. Conversely, it would be better to attack with a lower CD8 attack into level 2 or 3 CDD areas because they require more hits from the CD8's, and you have better chances of not getting those. All of this is for the situations where you don't want to create the extra CDD's. Otherwise, the opposite is better
 
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Greg
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PhilipMilne wrote:
Stairs - If the card placing them there refers to the distance from the MERCS (i.e. 'Stairs closest to/furthest from a MERC'), then you place them at the other stairs.

The rule book states under LOS "When determining distance between two areas, the players can only count areas that can be moved through, except when using the scanner to reveal a location."

If there is an impassable space - a space that cannot be moved through - directly in front of one set of stairs (I would assume whether it's due to full capacity or collateral damage), then the other set becomes both closest and furthest.

NB: For anyone noticing that I'm in the UK, no, at time of writing, I haven't received my copies yet - so don't panic about yours!
I'm reading from the PDF rules available on the McG website and have been playing the heck out of the print and play over the last week. I really want this game to arrive!


Not sure about that Philip. I think when they said "only count areas you can move though", it was about doors and walls, in regards to distance. Otherwise, there could be 3 employees in an area in the middle of a hallway, making that area impassible, and you have an agent disc 3 areas down the hall on one side of those employees, and a Merc around the corner on the other side of the employees. If a movement card says to move that agent disc 2 areas toward the closest Merc and when counting going through the employees it's 5 areas, but using your findings, the closest one might be 15 areas away, going all the way around the other way. Also, what if that same situation happens, and there is no other way for that disc to go, other than 2 spaces closer to the employees? Does it not move because you can't count spaces that can't be moved through, like the full capacity of 3 employees in an area?

 
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Nick Hughes
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I think I'd thematically that they have would be placed at the free stairs, after all all the SecFor have to do is go up or down a level cross the building and pop up in the free stair.

It makes little sense for them to stand in a stairwell looking at a hole in the floor.

That said, as has been stated, the rule is probably that they do stay there to force careful management of building damage during your mission and make the team strategize their attacks and movement accordingly.
 
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CK Lai
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jokeroz wrote:
That said, as has been stated, the rule is probably that they do stay there to force careful management of building damage during your mission and make the team strategize their attacks and movement accordingly.


This.

I always try to minimise usage of AoE weapons, and deal ASAP (whenever possible) with the SecFor II when they pop up, to minimise placing CDDs.

But I think some players want to be able to freely use their AoE weapons for their collateral damage benefits... without having to deal with the consequences of using said weapons
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Greg
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Chinkster wrote:
jokeroz wrote:
That said, as has been stated, the rule is probably that they do stay there to force careful management of building damage during your mission and make the team strategize their attacks and movement accordingly.


This.

I always try to minimise usage of AoE weapons, and deal ASAP (whenever possible) with the SecFor II when they pop up, to minimise placing CDDs.

But I think some players want to be able to freely use their AoE weapons for their collateral damage benefits... without having to deal with the consequences of using said weapons


Yeah, I think this could be an issue for some people that play the Incinerator or Gunner for the CCC. If playing solo it's one thing to not attack much with them, but playing with 4 or 5 players, those people playing those Mercs are going to want to attack.

But there can be better times for those guys to do area damage. Since overkill doesn't matter, them attacking a couple SecFor in a clean area wouldn't be as bad as them attacking an already damaged area. Also, later in some missions, they can be used to slow down SecFor that are chasing them. When it's not the best timeto attack with them, they could be used to capture workers. They can also be used to be main contributors of CP for combined actions.

This game is more thinky than a lot of games like this. A lot of big picture planning and not just a move and shoot.

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CK Lai
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Hahma wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
jokeroz wrote:
That said, as has been stated, the rule is probably that they do stay there to force careful management of building damage during your mission and make the team strategize their attacks and movement accordingly.


This.

I always try to minimise usage of AoE weapons, and deal ASAP (whenever possible) with the SecFor II when they pop up, to minimise placing CDDs.

But I think some players want to be able to freely use their AoE weapons for their collateral damage benefits... without having to deal with the consequences of using said weapons


Yeah, I think this could be an issue for some people that play the Incinerator or Gunner for the CCC. If playing solo it's one thing to not attack much with them, but playing with 4 or 5 players, those people playing those Mercs are going to want to attack.

But there can be better times for those guys to do area damage. Since overkill doesn't matter, them attacking a couple SecFor in a clean area wouldn't be as bad as them attacking an already damaged area. Also, later in some missions, they can be used to slow down SecFor that are chasing them. When it's not the best timeto attack with them, they could be used to capture workers. They can also be used to be main contributors of CP for combined actions.

This game is more thinky than a lot of games like this. A lot of big picture planning and not just a move and shoot.



True that. I think some players want this to be like a run and gun video game in a boardgame... then complain some rules are "broken" or not sufficiently play tested when their run and gun tactics don't work.

It's true what you said though. Go softly softly with the big guns early in the game... Then unleash them when you are running like heck for the EP. You'll be praying for them to do massive collateral damage so you can place a level 3 CDD on the board to prevent them from chasing your MERCS
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eric hess
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Agreed this is a fairly strong shift in mindset of other tactical board games (only Space Hulk and Claustrophobia come to mind). Environmental damage is so easy to do, and if you aren't careful becomes an afterthought which can completely deep 6 a mission.

It really does add a layer of 'thinky' to this kind of game and until you play a few games and see that, I was confused with how easy it was for me to ruin the mission through what I thought was standard gunfire.

It's quite fun to need to manage that stuff along with shooting people and getting to objectives.

Also, Greg: two words for why the Caps are such a threat - Justin Williams. He is SO underrated unless he's on your team. He brings so many intangibles to the ice and locker room, the Caps are lucky to have him. I miss him in a Kings sweater.
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Greg
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For sure Eric, Justin Williams is a really good player for sure. He flies under the radar until he's on your team or your team plays against him. Kind of like Brenden Morrow was for Dallas for a long time. Heart and soul type player.
 
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