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Subject: Elves appear broken in a 2 player game rss

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Stephen Michael Hickey
New Zealand
Auckland
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Played a two player game against the invincible Elves yesterday. Had to accept defeat after a few rounds as there were no sorcerers in sight and nothing that could be done to stop them. Their only weakness would be several players ganging up against them but in a two player it appears to be a lost cause. Decided to remove them from all future 2 player games.
 
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Chris Broggi
United States
Southwick
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Elves aren't broken in a 2 player game. The key is to avoid them. Their ability is useless if you never attack them.
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Stephen Michael Hickey
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So allow them to max out on points and then pick you off each turn. Really? And you expect to get more points doing that?
 
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David Mills
Australia
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Pick off their declined race. They will be missing out on many points without a declined race.
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Stephen Michael Hickey
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I must give it another try.
 
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Chris Broggi
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Your race will have special abilities of its own. Take advantage of that. Also, if you stay away from them, it will be difficult for them to pick you off.
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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Waverly
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Diplomatic is the thing that is broken in 2 player. I think everyone agrees that should be removed when only playing with 2. As for the elves, I agree with the others, pretty much ignore them and concentrate on scoring as much as possible and whittling away at their declined race.
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B C Z
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Steve99 wrote:
So allow them to max out on points and then pick you off each turn. Really? And you expect to get more points doing that?


The elves cannot both max out their points *and* be aggressive.

Foils to the elves:
Sorcerers (which you said were not in the queue)
Skeletons (you still get bonus skeletons for "kills")


Elves are a great *2nd* race, but they then have to actively protect their declined race to really max out points.

Also remember that it takes 1 marker to hold a territory; but 3+ to take it back (or 1 or 2 + the chance of the die). Elves rarely defend territories with more than a single unit, and if they are attempting to be aggressive, they aren't getting maximum points that round.

Attacking the player's declined race exclusively can keep the elves in check and force a later-than-they-should-have decline.
 
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michael ray
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The single biggest issue with elves, is because you never* lose them, you end up keeping them longer than you should instead of declining them.

As others have said, wipe out your opponents in decline race, and then if they only keep the elves, they can only score for 1 race, your 2 races scoring should easily give you the win.


*Sorcerers need not apply.
 
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Stephen Michael Hickey
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broggi wrote:
Also, if you stay away from them, it will be difficult for them to pick you off.


Unfortunately, they were Flying Elves. As others have suggested, I will persevere, build up my in decline races and take out any of their in decline races.

That must work, given that so many people have recommended it.
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Josh Koehn
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Steve99 wrote:
broggi wrote:
Also, if you stay away from them, it will be difficult for them to pick you off.


Unfortunately, they were Flying Elves. As others have suggested, I will persevere, build up my in decline races and take out any of their in decline races.

That must work, given that so many people have recommended it.


Flying Elves! That is a mean combo. I played over the weekend and one player made it through the whole game with just Seafaring Elves, and once he went into decline Wealthy Sorcerers came up and he floated that into victory. The Elves are very tricky to play against.
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Rinaldo De Lucca
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Edmonton
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I had the same problem. No sorcerer or skeletons around, and my wife didn't decline her elves (she started with the elves). Became clear very fast that I could not win that game.
 
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B C Z
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RinaldoDeLucca wrote:
I had the same problem. No sorcerer or skeletons around, and my wife didn't decline her elves (she started with the elves). Became clear very fast that I could not win that game.


If she started with and never declined, her ability to cover territory is limited and the per turn score is capped.

 
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Hans Moleman
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I was saying boo-urns
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byronczimmer wrote:
RinaldoDeLucca wrote:
I had the same problem. No sorcerer or skeletons around, and my wife didn't decline her elves (she started with the elves). Became clear very fast that I could not win that game.


If she started with and never declined, her ability to cover territory is limited and the per turn score is capped.



At best 8, though it highly dependent on the accompanying power. Either way, one race will simply not be enough, with the exception of maybe Merchant Elves -- whom left untouched will not need a decline race.

It's extremely difficult to win the game with your starter race. I'll assume something went wrong in your strategy if you got crushed by Elves alone.
 
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